[BogeyBoy]

Originally Posted by mikeod

OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.

Great post, thanks.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by mikeod

OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.

Your well thought out well presented post, covers all the bit#@ing that is constantly posted here. Well said!

[schotzyb]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Your well thought out well presented post, covers all the bit#@ing that is constantly posted here. Well said!

I really liked and found Mikeod's post to be right on but the one thing that irks me is Cane Garden constantly lags behind in it's conditions versus all the other championship courses. For the past three years it has been hit and miss on this course everytime we have played..

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by schotzyb

I really liked and found Mikeod's post to be right on but the one thing that irks me is Cane Garden constantly lags behind in it's conditions versus all the other championship courses. For the past three years it has been hit and miss on this course everytime we have played..

The pro at the country clubs is the Facility Manager, responsible for the course itself as well as for nearby executive courses. From my interaction with the ones that are responsible for the executive courses I "monitor", they are receptive to comments. If you feel that a particular course lags in maintenance compared to others around TV, I would suggest speaking to the pro. You will probably find they are quite aware of any shortcomings and already have a plan to address them. You may find out the maintenance company has been put on notice to improve or face not being renewed when their contract is up.

And they would probably have an answer if you ask why their course isn't as good as those off campus that you may play.

[schotzyb]

Originally Posted by mikeod

The pro at the country clubs is the Facility Manager, responsible for the course itself as well as for nearby executive courses. From my interaction with the ones that are responsible for the executive courses I "monitor", they are receptive to comments. If you feel that a particular course lags in maintenance compared to others around TV, I would suggest speaking to the pro. You will probably find they are quite aware of any shortcomings and already have a plan to address them. You may find out the maintenance company has been put on notice to improve or face not being renewed when their contract is up.

And they would probably have an answer if you ask why their course isn't as good as those off campus that you may play.

Didn't really mean to compare Cane Garden to any off campus courses and I apologize if it came off that way. My concern is that Cane Gardens conditions always lag behind all the other championship courses in the Villages or at least it seems that way to me

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by schotzyb

Didn't really mean to compare Cane Garden to any off campus courses and I apologize if it came off that way. My concern is that Cane Gardens conditions always lag behind all the other championship courses in the Villages or at least it seems that way to me

Nope. I didn't think you were comparing Cane to outside courses. I added that last comment because of the posts in the past that compared our courses to those outside the bubble.

[MrMark]

Originally Posted by mikeod

OK, let's try it again.
#1 It's all about water. Without adequate water, it's hard to maintain turfgrass in pristine condition. Why are other courses in better condition when the drought covers the same area? Water allocations. Just as the historic side of TV has different water restrictions than the rest of TV, different golf courses have different water allocations. Older courses may have had their allocation computed when water was expected to be more plentiful and therefore have a more adequate supply. Now we are getting some rain, but it will take a while before the courses show the benefits of the water. Jeez, give it some time.

#2. Volume of play. With the population of TV growing, and the fact that the majority of residents play golf, our courses get much more play per day/week/month than most other courses. Couple that with the proliferation of Reasonable Access bands, the courses have far more cart traffic over far more area than other courses. This makes maintenance much more of a challenge.

#3. The championship courses have to be self-sustaining. Don't expect the developer to kick in thousands. And he can't buy water for the courses! But also don't believe he is any happier about this than you. I have been here six years, and the last two winters have been the worst in terms of weather. First we had a severely cold winter followed by a severely dry fall and winter. Those two seasons with all the additional rounds played due to seasonal residents and guests have wreaked havoc on the courses. True, the same weather affected the courses you named, but the sheer volume of rounds here makes it worse.

#4. I have the opportunity to meet with the leaders of golf administration on a quarterly basis regarding the executive courses and I have never felt they presented a "let them eat cake" attitude. Rather, they are passionate about all the courses and monitor maintenance on the courses. In fact, they don't hesitate to fire any maintenance company (Yes, maintenance is contracted out.) that fails to meet standards. And, as I said above, it all comes down to water.

Good Post. Just one more question.
Where does all the water come from that keeps the grassy areas along all of our major roads so green and plush. Occassionally they are watered so much that one requires winshield wipers to go by. Is this the same water that is not available for our golf courses or is it from a hidden water resource that our golf course superintendents are unaware of? Actually, given a choice, I'd much rather endure viewing brown grass along Camino Real than searching unsuccessfully for a blade of grass to play a fairway shot from. If there's a water shortage so be it. Until everything is brown it seems more like an allocation issue and guess where us golfers fall in the pecking order. Anxious to hear where all this roadside watering comes from if not from the same source being used for golf courses. Using watering restrictions is a cop out as long as the common area grass is greener and thicker than golf course grass.

[BogeyBoy]

Originally Posted by MrMark

Good Post. Just one more question.
Where does all the water come from that keeps the grassy areas along all of our major roads so green and plush. Occassionally they are watered so much that one requires winshield wipers to go by. Is this the same water that is not available for our golf courses or is it from a hidden water resource that our golf course superintendents are unaware of? Actually, given a choice, I'd much rather endure viewing brown grass along Camino Real than searching unsuccessfully for a blade of grass to play a fairway shot from. If there's a water shortage so be it. Until everything is brown it seems more like an allocation issue and guess where us golfers fall in the pecking order. Anxious to hear where all this roadside watering comes from if not from the same source being used for golf courses. Using watering restrictions is a cop out as long as the common area grass is greener and thicker than golf course grass.

My uninformed opinion is that it is a different type of grass that can look good with less water because it gets less (if any) foot/golf cart traffic.

[Russ_Boston]

I don't really have a problem with tight grass (OK,let's call it dirt) in the fairway since you're hitting the ball first from 150 anyway. It's around the greens when I want to clip a pitch shot a little up on the face. I end up having to chip with an 8 or 9 iron so the bounce on the wedges doesn't bang off the dirt, that's where a little more plush grass would come in very handy.

I would think with the rain we've had over the past two weeks and the amount that is coming today we should be all set for a decent run of great conditions very soon.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by MrMark

Good Post. Just one more question.
Where does all the water come from that keeps the grassy areas along all of our major roads so green and plush. Occassionally they are watered so much that one requires winshield wipers to go by. Is this the same water that is not available for our golf courses or is it from a hidden water resource that our golf course superintendents are unaware of? Actually, given a choice, I'd much rather endure viewing brown grass along Camino Real than searching unsuccessfully for a blade of grass to play a fairway shot from. If there's a water shortage so be it. Until everything is brown it seems more like an allocation issue and guess where us golfers fall in the pecking order. Anxious to hear where all this roadside watering comes from if not from the same source being used for golf courses. Using watering restrictions is a cop out as long as the common area grass is greener and thicker than golf course grass.

It's not a question of water source. It does come from the same source as the golf courses. The difference is that those areas don't have a parade of golf carts on them all day, every day. Ask any course superintendent about the problem of maintaining turf with golf carts constantly running over it. That's why you see the "Scatter" markers at the end of some paths.

I'm sorry, but I don't see a conspiracy against golfers here. Remember that we constantly have visitors here thinking about buying a home. It is important for TV to have attractive landscaping all around AND to have the courses in the best shape possible. To let either area suffer needlessly would not serve the residents or the developer. As far as the comment that you would rather see the common areas brown so the courses could be greener, remember there are residents here who do not play golf and could not care less about the courses. They enjoy the overall beauty of TV. It would not be fair to take that away from them. What if they could force it the other way!

[mickey100]

I agree. We don't have the water allocations that some of the older courses outside The Villages have, and we have much more cart traffic than those same courses. I think they do the best they can do here, given the parameters they work within. With this rain, the courses should be shaping up nicely. It seems to happen every year - March through May a number of the courses are dried out and basically terrible, then by early to mid-summer, the same courses are fantastic. The opposite will be true as well - courses like Glenview which are normally pretty good in the winter, don't have good drainage, so I'll tend to avoid that course during the rainy summer season. Russ, I'm with you - would love a nice cushion of grass near the green to chip from. Hopefully we'll have that pretty soon.

[PaPaLarry]

OK!!!! Let's play Golf!!!!!

[hedoman]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

I don't really have a problem with tight grass (OK,let's call it dirt) in the fairway since you're hitting the ball first from 150 anyway. It's around the greens when I want to clip a pitch shot a little up on the face. I end up having to chip with an 8 or 9 iron so the bounce on the wedges doesn't bang off the dirt, that's where a little more plush grass would come in very handy.

I would think with the rain we've had over the past two weeks and the amount that is coming today we should be all set for a decent run of great conditions very soon.

Before the rains I was afraid to hit down on the ball with long irons for fear of blowing out an elbow. Weds at Lopez the fairways were finally soft enough to take some turf. We need them to let the rough grow out as sometimes I can't tell where the fairway ends and rough begins, escpecailly when we have to stay in one or the other

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by hedoman

Before the rains I was afraid to hit down on the ball with long irons for fear of blowing out an elbow. Weds at Lopez the fairways were finally soft enough to take some turf. We need them to let the rough grow out as sometimes I can't tell where the fairway ends and rough begins, escpecailly when we have to stay in one or the other

Probably why my elbow has been hurting lately. Didn't think along those lines. Hopefully soft enough now!

[hedoman]

Yes it is true! All restrictions lifted FINALLY! Course is back to being in great shape,good price this time of year and fair pace of play.

Played mllory on Weds. Not a fan of the conditions. Need more rain so the course can heal.....