[Golfingnut]

It's an education thing. Once residents understand the effect of bending the rules for their friends has on their neighbors, the vast majority will stop the practice. At least I think it is more misunderstanding than being insensitive to other residents.

[n8xwb]

Here is what you are missing. First, if a guest is included in your request, your request is processed AFTER all requests without a guest, regardless of points. So, if you use a resident id who doesnt care to golf, has no points, you get a tee time, then you cancel out that resident and put in your guest.....you have obtained a tee time you would not have gotten. Same issue with using a wifes number to fill a slot instead of a regular golfer who has points. Teetimes are issued based on whos request has the least points. Using a ghost golfer id who has zero points, moves your request up in the que, and you get a tee time you are not entitled too.

[Fourpar]

Originally Posted by n8xwb

Here is what you are missing. First, if a guest is included in your request, your request is processed AFTER all requests without a guest, regardless of points. So, if you use a resident id who doesnt care to golf, has no points, you get a tee time, then you cancel out that resident and put in your guest.....you have obtained a tee time you would not have gotten. Same issue with using a wifes number to fill a slot instead of a regular golfer who has points. Teetimes are issued based on whos request has the least points. Using a ghost golfer id who has zero points, moves your request up in the que, and you get a tee time you are not entitled too.

Well put n8xeb, it is kind of like the people who pass their "Reasonable Accommodations" identification off to friends and neighbors. Both practices are cheating those who abide by the rules, and others (the good guys & gals) suffer. Those who engage in these practices should be banned from the tee time system.

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by n8xwb

Here is what you are missing. First, if a guest is included in your request, your request is processed AFTER all requests without a guest, regardless of points. So, if you use a resident id who doesnt care to golf, has no points, you get a tee time, then you cancel out that resident and put in your guest.....you have obtained a tee time you would not have gotten. Same issue with using a wifes number to fill a slot instead of a regular golfer who has points. Teetimes are issued based on whos request has the least points. Using a ghost golfer id who has zero points, moves your request up in the que, and you get a tee time you are not entitled too.

In case my posts were not clear, I agree with everything you have said in your post.

In one of my previous post I described what a friend was doing as "causing no harm". I should not have said that.

Although it is not as harmful as ghosting (not showing so you play as a threesome with just your buddies) or subbing in a guest after you get a tee time, it is certainly wrong for the reason you stated about 'points'.

Knowing him and chatting with him after, I know his motive was not to cheat the system. He was making sure he had four slots and felt as long as four residents played, what was the big deal. I am just describing the situation, not defending him.

He was caught, he now understands why it was wrong, his poor wife was punished and he has never done that again (to my knowledge). I only see him occasionally on 18 hole courses.

[Bogie Shooter]

From "Golfing in The Villages" brochure.


System �Abuse�
The Villages Tee Time System, as is the game of golf, is built
around the integrity of the individual; it is the only game where players call penalties on themselves. Our tee time system is a fair
and equitable system for assigning tee times to residents of The
Villages. It does, to some extent, rely on each resident using the
system in a fair and equitable manner. However, from time to
time, we encounter activity that appears to be to the contrary.
Some individuals attempt to circumvent the integrity of the
system. Whether or not these actions are intentional, it is
our responsibility to protect the privileges of all residents by
appropriately dealing with the matter. If we encounter such
activity associated with a resident�s Villages ID#, the resident will
be notified of our concern, and appropriate action taken (see the
District�s golf penalty policy at www.DistrictGov.com), up to and
including the suspension of system use and golfing privileges. We,
as well as our fellow residents, appreciate everyone�s fair play.


Multiple tee time cancellations using �ghost golfers�
�Ghost Golfer� refers to a Villages ID# which is used to obtain tee
times, but is subsequently cancelled, either always or a majority
of the time. This type of �system abuse� will cause the Villages ID#
to be de-activated in the system for a period of time. Additionally,
the individual making the request, and the golfer who replaces the
ghost golfer, may also be subject to de-activation.

[rubicon]

The talk here has been primarily about "guests". If one has a guest they go to the back of the line. I question that statement. The guest is assigned the same points as the resident host. So we are back to the issue of weighing points among tee time reservations If you are a player with 7 points that means you played perhaps the entire week. some players have more than 7 points because they gobble up open tee times. Neither of these types should complain its just plain greedy.

As to the other scenario of reserving for 4 and needing to find one well in my view a golfer's got to commit or not commit. If you habe only three then reserve three. I am certain a single will fill in for the fourth and you just might meet a nice person for the first time and he/she may be your fourth in the future

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by rubicon

The talk here has been primarily about "guests". If one has a guest they go to the back of the line. I question that statement. The guest is assigned the same points as the resident host. SStuff cut from OP by Alan

This is not quite true. There are two type of points. Placement points and reservation points. You are speaking of reservation points.

Placement points take precedence. If we restrict the scope to executive courses. A resident is assigned 6 placement points, a guest is assigned 7 placement points.

A group with 4 residents has 24 placements points. A group with 3 residents and a guest has 25 placement points.

The group with least placement points goes first into the queue. Reservation points (how much you played) will only be considered when groups have the SAME placement points.

To restate, a group of four residents will get a tee time ahead of a group with 3 residents and a guest EVEN IF that group with four residents has played every day and the group with 3 residents and a guest has never played.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

This is not quite true. There are two type of points. Placement points and reservation points. You are speaking of reservation points.

Placement points take precedence. If we restrict the scope to executive courses. A resident is assigned 6 placement points, a guest is assigned 7 placement points.

A group with 4 residents has 24 placements points. A group with 3 residents and a guest has 25 placement points.

The group with least placement points goes first into the queue. Reservation points (how much you played) will only be considered when groups have the SAME placement points.

To restate, a group of four residents will get a tee time ahead of a group with 3 residents and a guest EVEN IF that group with four residents has played every day and the group with 3 residents and a guest has never played.

AJ - That does not agree with the discussions I have had at the golf administration office regarding the executive courses. The explanation I received was that groups containing residents only have priority over groups with a guest. Priority for tee time or course is based on the average points for the whole group. So a request for a group with an average of 2.5 points per player will be assigned tee times before a group with an average of 3 points per player. The other consideration is the number of tee times required by the request. If the request is for 16 players, the system must find 4 consecutive times within the time frame the group requests. And the system will go down the course list until it can find 4 slots within that time frame. If you request course priority instead of time priority, the system will keep looking at the preferred course until it finds the right number of consecutive slots.

There are only two types of points. The reservation/play point one receives for making the reservation and playing. The reservation point is awarded even if the course is closed for frost or other problems. The others are the points received for canceling, either before the day of play (1), or on the day of play (2).

I would be interested in where the information on placement points came from.

[Birdie Dreamer]

Originally Posted by mikeod

AJ -
I would be interested in where the information on placement points came from.

Starts on page 3 of the " Golfing in The Villages" brochure.

AJ is correct.

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by mikeod

AJ - That does not agree with the discussions I have had at the golf administration office regarding the executive courses. The explanation I received was that groups containing residents only have priority over groups with a guest. Priority for tee time or course is based on the average points for the whole group. So a request for a group with an average of 2.5 points per player will be assigned tee times before a group with an average of 3 points per player. The other consideration is the number of tee times required by the request. If the request is for 16 players, the system must find 4 consecutive times within the time frame the group requests. And the system will go down the course list until it can find 4 slots within that time frame. If you request course priority instead of time priority, the system will keep looking at the preferred course until it finds the right number of consecutive slots.

There are only two types of points. The reservation/play point one receives for making the reservation and playing. The reservation point is awarded even if the course is closed for frost or other problems. The others are the points received for canceling, either before the day of play (1), or on the day of play (2).

I would be interested in where the information on placement points came from.

It is all described here: http://www.golfthevillages.com/golf-...heVillages.pdf

I remember reading it when I first started making tee times. It is the placement points that make it difficult to bring a guest to an executive course.

The other item that may surprise people is the fact that a guest of a priority member has less placement points than a resident member and will go in the queue before the resident member. This is only for a request to obtain championship course tee times.

To state another way, on a day I cannot play, 3 residents and my guest (priority) would go in front of a group of 4 residents for a tee time request for a championship course.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

It is all described here: http://www.golfthevillages.com/golf-...heVillages.pdf

I remember reading it when I first started making tee times. It is the placement points that make it difficult to bring a guest to an executive course.

The other item that may surprise people is the fact that a guest of a priority member has less placement points than a resident member and will go in the queue before the resident member. This is only for a request to obtain championship course tee times.

To state another way, on a day I cannot play, 3 residents and my guest (priority) would go in front of a group of 4 residents for a tee time request for a championship course.

I was aware of the placement situation with priority and that priority guest went ahead of resident and one of the reasons I dropped priority after being here 7 years.

However I was not aware that placement points counted with executive courses probably because I seldom use it and because all I see are the points made against a player for the previous week.

I need to re-read everything again...Guess the Law of Disuse is coming into play here. thanks AJ

[Mikeod]

Thanks for the link. I checked to see if that pamphlet was published recently and after my discussions at golf admin. It was not, which is disappointing because my visit to them was specifically to understand how the system works in assigning times between groups with guests and those without. There was no mention of placement points at all. AJ's post was the first time I had heard about it.