[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

This thread is fascinating. I'm amazed at how many experts we have on TOTV!

I've been in TV for 4 winters. I play 5 times a week. I book the night before, so that means I've played with approximately 1000 different golfers.

I have played with fewer than 20 people who played the Blue Tees.

I have never seen anyone else play the Golds or Blacks.

I have yet to see anyone break 80.

I shot my age from the Blues at TDS, last winter. I figured if I got old enough, I'd eventually accomplish that elusive goal. 1 under par.

I follow @LouStagner on twitter. He is a golf stats guy, and coaches the Princeton Men's golf team, and caddies in USGA amateur tournaments.

HIs stats are very telling and fascinating with data points in the tens of thousands from all handicappers.

Scratch players make bogey on one of out every four holes they play.
Scratch players are in the top ~1% of all amateur golfers.
They average ~4.7 bogeys per round.
They average ~ 2.2 birdies per round.
From 110 yards in the fairway, they are getting it up and down about 1 out of 10 times.

hey do NOT have a scoring average of even par.

A scratch player...
Playing a par 72...
With a 71.5 course rating...
And a 131 slope rating...

Will have a scoring average of about 75 over their last 20 rounds.

Scratch golfer stats mega thread by Lou
https://x.com/LouStagner/status/1849825129481544096

Approximate ranges:
That puts a low handicapper between 75-82
A mid handicapper between 82- 89
A high handicapper 90 and above

@BrianL, you are probably a scratch golfer, correct! very impressive given the difficulty of the sport.

However, if you read enough of Lou's posts, you will realize that most 65 y/o and above should not be playing the back two tee boxes based upon their age/expected/average distance off the tees anyway. . one can be scratch at the men's forward tees. . .

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Snakster66

I played the Golds At Palmer on Saturday. Seemed about right, but no, I didn't break 80. The tee on the second hole on Riley Grove was only one that had me second guessing my choice. Some intimidating carry on that one.

That's a tough hole. I find keeping it right on the Tee shot, is a better way to play the hole. Of course, it probably doesn't matter much, because it's nearly impossible to keep your 2nd shot on the Green.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Snakster66

I played the Golds At Palmer on Saturday. Seemed about right, but no, I didn't break 80. The tee on the second hole on Riley Grove was only one that had me second guessing my choice. Some intimidating carry on that one.

Jus played it this morning.
Course is in great shape.

The poor starter at Riley needs to retire.
He was arguing with me as to my name (with my Villages ID in hand).
Argued I was some guy named "Wallinkoski" & I was at the wrong tee time.

Once past him, very nice morning.

[dewilson58]

Thanks the posts and PM's.

I have a couple solid options.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Scratch players make bogey on one of out every four holes they play.
Scratch players are in the top ~1% of all amateur golfers.
They average ~4.7 bogeys per round.
They average ~ 2.2 birdies per round.
From 110 yards in the fairway, they are getting it up and down about 1 out of 10 times.

A scratch player...
Playing a par 72...
With a 71.5 course rating...
And a 131 slope rating...

Will have a scoring average of about 75 over their last 20 rounds.

However, if you read enough of Lou's posts, you will realize that most 65 y/o and above should not be playing the back two tee boxes based upon their age/expected/average distance off the tees anyway. . one can be scratch at the men's forward tees. . .

Wow, I feel better about myself without a lesson.

Interesting ............... the "65 and above" comment vs. driving distance (no matter what age).
I believe it's driving distance, not age, determining back two tees.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

I follow @LouStagner on twitter. He is a golf stats guy, and coaches the Princeton Men's golf team, and caddies in USGA amateur tournaments.

...

However, if you read enough of Lou's posts, you will realize that most 65 y/o and above should not be playing the back two tee boxes based upon their age/expected/average distance off the tees anyway. . one can be scratch at the men's forward tees. . .

Lou Stagner is a 1st class jerk. He's an assistant coach at Princeton, who provides them with statistical analysis. Lou's not much of a golfer, I'd play him at scratch any day and I have 30+ years on him. His X account is one of the worst examples of engagement farming I've seen in the golf community.

As soon as someone calls him out on his nonsense, Lou disappears. IMO, his understand of golf stats is no better than a 16 year old boy's understand of sex.

If you want to follow someone from Arccos who knows what he's talking about, follow @hutch_golf. Hutch is not only a stat guy at Arccos, he plays at scratch and just won his club championship.

Being a finance guy, you already know this ... statistics are only as good as the raw input. Arccos' stats aren't representative and rife with errors and Lou comes erroneous conclusions. Lou brags about their "2 billion shot" database, but has no interest in putting his "conclusions" into context, only tossing hand grenades over the transom, to generate "hits". (I have a friend at Arccos, who's about 8 steps above Lou on the food chain, so I have a little extra insight).

Sorry to get wound up, but Lou Stagner is the Kardashian of golf "statisticians".

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Wow, I feel better about myself without a lesson.

Interesting ............... the "65 and above" comment vs. driving distance (no matter what age).
I believe it's driving distance, not age, determining back two tees.

Age & driving distance are fairly well connected. I don't kow any 65+ year olds, who can hit it farther than they did at 50.

The best distance recommendation I've seen, is multiply your 5 Iron (carry) distance by 36. That puts me right around 6000 yards. I now play the Blue Tees everywhere (TDS is about 6200 from the Blues).

[Safety Ranger]

Try Larrie Yosha at Harbor Hills.

[HORNET]

Move up one set of Tees, then enjoy the day!

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by HORNET

Move up one set of Tees, then enjoy the day!

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Jus played it this morning.
Course is in great shape.

The poor starter at Riley needs to retire.
He was arguing with me as to my name (with my Villages ID in hand).
Argued I was some guy named "Wallinkoski" & I was at the wrong tee time.

Once past him, very nice morning.

You were Poles apart then?

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

I follow @LouStagner on twitter. He is a golf stats guy, and coaches the Princeton Men's golf team, and caddies in USGA amateur tournaments.

However, if you read enough of Lou's posts, you will realize that most 65 y/o and above should not be playing the back two tee boxes based upon their age/expected/average distance off the tees anyway. . one can be scratch at the men's forward tees. . .

If you follow Lou, most 45 year olds shouldn’t be teeing off from the back two tees.

[SHIBUMI]

As a golfers handicap gets lower his ego gets higher. Then as he hits single digits his ego grows exponentially. For the OP to say there isn't any teacher in the Villages that can teach him anything means his balloon is a little too full. He needs to let a little air out before he can let any learning in. So, as your golf improves, be careful of this stat.. it is so spot on

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

I follow @LouStagner on twitter. He is a golf stats guy, and coaches the Princeton Men's golf team, and caddies in USGA amateur tournaments.

HIs stats are very telling and fascinating with data points in the tens of thousands from all handicappers.

Scratch players make bogey on one of out every four holes they play.
Scratch players are in the top ~1% of all amateur golfers.
They average ~4.7 bogeys per round.
They average ~ 2.2 birdies per round.
From 110 yards in the fairway, they are getting it up and down about 1 out of 10 times.

hey do NOT have a scoring average of even par.

A scratch player...
Playing a par 72...
With a 71.5 course rating...
And a 131 slope rating...

Will have a scoring average of about 75 over their last 20 rounds.

Scratch golfer stats mega thread by Lou
https://x.com/LouStagner/status/1849825129481544096

Approximate ranges:
That puts a low handicapper between 75-82
A mid handicapper between 82- 89
A high handicapper 90 and above

@BrianL, you are probably a scratch golfer, correct! very impressive given the difficulty of the sport.

However, if you read enough of Lou's posts, you will realize that most 65 y/o and above should not be playing the back two tee boxes based upon their age/expected/average distance off the tees anyway. . one can be scratch at the men's forward tees. . .

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

I follow @LouStagner on twitter. He is a golf stats guy, and coaches the Princeton Men's golf team, and caddies in USGA amateur tournaments.


@BrianL, you are probably a scratch golfer, correct! very impressive given the difficulty of the sport.

I'm far from scratch. Getting that low at 70+ years old is tough. I was 5.3 when I left TV last May. I've been between 3-6 for about 15 years. I've had a nagging injury for a few months and up to around 8 now.

It's extremely tough to keep a low handicap in TV, because of the course ratings & slope. To be scratch, you'd need to shoot under par most every day, from the Blue or Gold Tees.

To give you an idea, a Scratch Player at Mallory, playing Caroline to Virginia from the Blue Tees, is playing at +4. Shooting 68 isn't easy, no matter what golf course you're playing.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by jim@jedward.com

Stephen Wresh at Continental Country Club. Best in the area. Excellent with low handicap golfers.

Took a lesson from him. 90% of the shots were off of a mat. Does not work for me.