[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Too late, that's all they are...........pro shop office managers.

Interesting you say that.

I found out this morning, that the "Golf Professionals" seem to be the ones who oversee the renovation of the Executive Golf Courses. ( I downloaded a copy of the Bid Package for Pimlico & Pelican today).

Not to disparage the Golf Professional Staff in TV, but many of them were "Asst. Professionals" until TV elevated their stature to "Head Pros" and .... they're golf guys, not construction people.

I'm not sure having a golf pro oversee a $1,000,000 - $1,500,000 construction project, is prudent. Also, there doesn't seem to be any provisions in the Bid Package, for "3rd Party Verifications" (there is some mention of CEC over-sight) nor are there construction specifications for the Greens , Tees & Bunkers (replace what was there, isn't a "construction standard").

There are 62 Pages in the Bid Documents. Only 3 pages relate to the actual construction, standards and specifications for the 2 courses. There are 55+ pages of technical requirements, as to ethics, insurance, billing, payments, etc.

There are no construction plans, survey plans, engineering plans nor even a drawing of the original golf course that they're supposed to replicate. No elevations nor topographical information. No grading requirements (other than "keep it the same").

"remove clumpy material in preparation for grassing" is not a design specification nor an acceptable construction standard.

"Install 4 to 6 + inches of granite drain rock (USGA spec) completely covering the greens floor and drain lines. "Granite drain rock" is not a USGA spec, I believe it's a proprietary product, from a particular quarry and typically use for "top dressing".

"Install 12 to 14 + inches of 85/15 greens sand mix (USGA spec -must provide analysis test before installing) in the green’s cavity over drainage rock" The USGA doesn't provide a single "spec", it provides 28 pages of recommendations, that vary for different situations.

Not a single sentence in the entire Bid Package, includes the words: "must be constructed pursuant to USGA recommendations (or standards)". In the entire bid, ONE sentence is dedicated to establishing the quality of the work. It says: "WORK STANDARDS:
Contractor shall perform all work using the latest industry best practices and standards as applicable to this work."

At the meeting of the Advisory Committee 3 weeks ago, when renovation of the Executive Courses was discussed, we were told that the Greens and Bunkers are all per USGA spec. That is not what the Bid requires.

As a matter of fact, the Bid never mentions any USGA publications or recommendations for the construction of Greens/Bunkers/Fairways.

If my Landscape Architect designed a landscape plan for my 600 sq. ft. front yard, they'd be more detail, than the entire bid package for Executive Golf Course Renovation.

**** I could be wrong about this part, but I don't think so. The Bid requires "Unit Pricing" for almost every aspect of the job. In other words, it estimates certain job functions such as #1 "All Greens to be sod stripped ...." This quantity is estimated at 50,000 sq. ft. If the actual quantity exceeds 50,000 sq. ft., there are provision for the contractor to submit a Change Order for increased costs. If the quantity is less than 50,000 sq. ft., the District doesn't get a price reduction.

If anyone is interested, you can download the USGA 2018 revisions for putting green construction, from here: MSU Libraries (Redirecting...) › tic › usgamisc › monos › 2018recommendationsmethodputtinggreen.pdf

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I've searched multiple times, without any luck.

Even tried a few guesses, based on the typical employee email address in TV ... all have been returned at "undeliverable".

On a positive note, I can usually get the resident professional on the phone, when I've tried.

For whatever it's worth in my experience, Mark Verkey at Palmer is head and shoulders above any of the PGA Professionals in TV. He's always available and always responsive.

Brady Godfrey at Mallory Hills, seems similar to Mark.

I've talked (or tried) to talk with most of the other PGA Pros on campus ... the experiences weren't productive. Maybe I caught them on a bad day or they were under the pall induced by El Nino.

You know, everything was ok until you had to throw in the El Niño reference….. Oh, the armchair greenskeepers on TOTV…..

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Interesting you say that.

I found out this morning, that the "Golf Professionals" seem to be the ones who oversee the renovation of the Executive Golf Courses. ( I downloaded a copy of the Bid Package for Pimlico & Pelican today).

Not to disparage the Golf Professional Staff in TV, but many of them were "Asst. Professionals" until TV elevated their stature to "Head Pros" and .... they're golf guys, not construction people.

I'm not sure having a golf pro oversee a $1,000,000 - $1,500,000 construction project, is prudent. Also, there doesn't seem to be any provisions in the Bid Package, for "3rd Party Verifications" (there is some mention of CEC over-sight) nor are there construction specifications for the Greens , Tees & Bunkers (replace what was there, isn't a "construction standard").

There are 62 Pages in the Bid Documents. Only 3 pages relate to the actual construction, standards and specifications for the 2 courses. There are 55+ pages of technical requirements, as to ethics, insurance, billing, payments, etc.

There are no construction plans, survey plans, engineering plans nor even a drawing of the original golf course that they're supposed to replicate. No elevations nor topographical information. No grading requirements (other than "keep it the same").

"remove clumpy material in preparation for grassing" is not a design specification nor an acceptable construction standard.

"Install 4 to 6 + inches of granite drain rock (USGA spec) completely covering the greens floor and drain lines. "Granite drain rock" is not a USGA spec, I believe it's a proprietary product, from a particular quarry and typically use for "top dressing".

"Install 12 to 14 + inches of 85/15 greens sand mix (USGA spec -must provide analysis test before installing) in the green’s cavity over drainage rock" The USGA doesn't provide a single "spec", it provides 28 pages of recommendations, that vary for different situations.

Not a single sentence in the entire Bid Package, includes the words: "must be constructed pursuant to USGA recommendations (or standards)". In the entire bid, ONE sentence is dedicated to establishing the quality of the work. It says: "WORK STANDARDS:
Contractor shall perform all work using the latest industry best practices and standards as applicable to this work."

At the meeting of the Advisory Committee 3 weeks ago, when renovation of the Executive Courses was discussed, we were told that the Greens and Bunkers are all per USGA spec. That is not what the Bid requires.

As a matter of fact, the Bid never mentions any USGA publications or recommendations for the construction of Greens/Bunkers/Fairways.

If my Landscape Architect designed a landscape plan for my 600 sq. ft. front yard, they'd be more detail, than the entire bid package for Executive Golf Course Renovation.

**** I could be wrong about this part, but I don't think so. The Bid requires "Unit Pricing" for almost every aspect of the job. In other words, it estimates certain job functions such as #1 "All Greens to be sod stripped ...." This quantity is estimated at 50,000 sq. ft. If the actual quantity exceeds 50,000 sq. ft., their are provision for the contractor to submit a Change Order for increased costs. If the quantity is less than 50,000 sq. ft., the District doesn't get a price reduction.

Hmmm

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

Hmmm

Where did you download that from?

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by PGApromike

It sounds as if you might be looking for lessons? The issue tends to be that unless you go to the academies, facilities are limited. Especially if you want video or a trackman.
As a 30 year and current PGA professional, which there are probably a hundred of us living in The Villages, try to find an instructor that makes their living by teaching, not running a golf course and also teaches. I worked a while at Sarasota Practice Facility and they do a good job. The teachers only teach, use video and trackman. Short game area and putting green. Don't limit yourself to the villages either. I volunteer at Continental as an ambassador to get range and playing privileges.
Steve runs all instruction there and has other instructors that teach. They are easy to get to, but not by golf cart. You would likely get lessons anytime you're available, not when the teachers are available. There are also many people saying they are professionals, teaching at some of the villages practice areas and pitch and putts. PGA Professionals will have ID cards but it is frowned upon by the PGA of America for us to teach at a facility without permission of the facility.
Hope this helps someone reading this.

It’s frowned on because the so-called PGA Professionals take wages away from the PGA Professionals that are actually employed by The District at the Academy’s.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

Where did you download that from?

I had to email the "Contract Officer" first, to find out where it was available ... I wasn't smart enough to find it on my own (or too lazy to look).

It's right here:

Current and Archived Solicitations

I'm just about done with my letter to the Districts Reps, but like the last one I sent, it will surely just go in the circular file. The Bid Documents are a joke. I did Military Design/Build work for a while. I know what Bid Documents & Contracts are supposed to look like ... & these aren't them. (I was involved with 3 USAF "Officer Housing" projects at Hanscom Field ... we won "Housing Contractor of the Year" from the Air Force for one of our Scott Circle projects.)

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I had to email the "Contract Officer" first, to find out where it was available ... I wasn't smart enough to find it on my own (or too lazy to look).

It's right here:

Current and Archived Solicitations

I'm just about done with my letter to the Districts Reps, but like the last one I sent, it will surely just go in the circular file. The Bid Documents are a joke. I did Military Design/Build work for a while. I know what Bid Documents & Contracts are supposed to look like ... & these aren't them. (I was involved with 3 USAF "Officer Housing" projects at Hanscom Field ... we won "Housing Contractor of the Year" from the Air Force for one of our Scott Circle projects.)

Thank you sir!

Interesting campus at Hanscom

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

Thank you sir!

Interesting campus at Hanscom

Dealing with the USAF is an experience, although no where near as bad as doing an Army Corps of Engineers' job. Did one of those in Hudson.

[MrChip72]

It's frustrating in general all of the things that aren't available on the golf website that would be available on 90+% of other places like:

Anyone's contact info/email address
Golf range rates
Group or Private lesson rates
Championship course twilight info
Individual yardages for each hole of a given course
Course rating/slope rating for each course

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by MrChip72

It's frustrating in general all of the things that aren't available on the golf website that would be available on 90+% of other places like:

Anyone's contact info/email address
Golf range rates
Group or Private lesson rates
Championship course twilight info
Individual yardages for each hole of a given course
Course rating/slope rating for each course

Other than range ball rates, lesson rates and Contact Emails, all the other information is available at "www.golfthevillages.com".

[MrChip72]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Other than range ball rates, lesson rates and Contact Emails, all the other information is available at "www.golfthevillages.com".

I know there's a bunch of links on that site that are buried but I've never been able to find private lesson rates listed, or contact emails for specific people. The instructor page simply has a bio for each person.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by MrChip72

I know there's a bunch of links on that site that are buried but I've never been able to find private lesson rates listed, or contact emails for specific people. The instructor page simply has a bio for each person.

The rates are always changing & there's always a "deal" of some sort.

I had one experience with the Learning Center at Sarasota and never again. I'm owed a 60 minute lesson, but I'd rather shoot 110 then go back there. Some of the Instructors are ok, but the staff and management are awful. Most every employee of the The Villages and District are unfailingly polite and accommodating if they can be ... Sarasota is an exception to the rule.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Is there a place to obtain email addresses for TV golf pro's??

I find "Meet the Pro's"...........but no email contact information.

Apparently, residents cannot send email to the Project Wide Advisory Committee, either.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Apparently, residents cannot send email to the Project Wide Advisory Committee, either.

Love 2024 transparency. If anything is this hard to find....it’s by design.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

Love 2024 transparency. If anything is this hard to find....it’s by design.

Oh no, you can find the address for the PWAC, the email address just doesn't accept email, unless you're on the "approved sender" list.

I posted a screen shot of the message I got back, but it doesn't seem to be showing up:

"The group PWACBOARD only accepts messages from people in its organization or on its allowed senders list, and your email address isn't on the list".