[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

If it ain't broke, why fix it???

That is the issue - a lot of people think it is broken.

Just read the posts about the condition of the executive and championship courses!

[Sandy and Ed]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

No issue with your wrong number of courses, just including the number you stated.

"vernacular"???:
a) the language or dialect spoken by the ordinary people in a particular country or region.
b) using the form of a language that a particular group of speakers use naturally, especially in informal situations

Do you mean you are using the words "The Villages" more generically???....including the Districts??

The Villages is a land development company..........develop & sell.
Mowing & fertilizing are not core businesses.
When profitable / efficient, they sell off non-core functions (CDD's, water treatment, etc.).
I think that's what you are missing.........it's not centralized, hasn't been "forever" and is not what a land development company focuses on.

Thanks for providing those clarifications to the OP’s posting. Makes a world of difference and definitely adds value to the discourse.

[MarkD1981]

Originally Posted by Pondboy

My guess would be that they are in the “Land Development / Home Building” business and not the golf course maintenance business. They contract out all their maintenance ; landscaping, mowing, ponds, water, etc.,

This way they also don’t have to worry about providing health / retirement benefits to all the extra staff.

They also don’t have to worry about lawsuits should anything go wrong.

Outsourcing will not shield you from liability. Lawyers will follow the money and The Villages has plenty. Jurors are sympathetic towards plaintiffs.

[crash]

Originally Posted by Pondboy

My guess would be that they are in the “Land Development / Home Building” business and not the golf course maintenance business. They contract out all their maintenance ; landscaping, mowing, ponds, water, etc.,

This way they also don’t have to worry about providing health / retirement benefits to all the extra staff.

They also don’t have to worry about lawsuits should anything go wrong.

The championship courses are privately ran the developer just leases them out to private companies. The executive course are owned by the development districts not the developer.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

When I used the words "The Villages", I was meaning the CDD's & all the other entities involved with golf in The Villages (but you already know what I meant). Folks in The Villages seem to lump the entities all together, so I used "vernacular" ... it's such a good word.
...

Yes, they do. But that is because most residents have not taken the time to learn how our community works. There are many who that believe that the Morse family owns everything inside 'the bubble'.

Since you have time, I suggest that a good place to begin is to develop an understanding of all the parts and pieces of "The Villages". It is well worth the time. Take a look at Resident Academy (hopefully the still offer it).

[NotGolfer]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda! I don't golf now but used to. My other 1/2 does and has for years, so not a rooky. I never hear complaints! A different slant on this "conversation"----it seems no matter what the subject, there are folks who seem to be "experts" or have opinions on how things should be going. One common comment is----"we didn't have this/that where we came from!!" A couple of people on here hit it on the head---T.V. is a business and it's to build houses. NOT provide you stellar (fill in the blank) whatever you feel we need. Would it all be wonderful and nice? Yep!! Central Florida was a rural area and not a metro one. People here came for "Life-styles"---loved what they saw and decided to move here. From all the complaints it seems "some" didn't do their homework. Think the prison and the quarry as well as the Interstate!!! THIS is MY opinion!!! On another note----social media sites are great entertainment!!

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I'm using the words "The Villages", in the vernacular & as for the number, I keep reading different #'s. 50 is a close enough approximation of the number of golf courses in TV, isn't? I can do some research and may come up with the exact number?

I don't think my point changes, if it's 38 or 43, does it?

Some users on this site post just to post.

[mkjelenbaas]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

So I have a question.

Having been in the golf course business, I'm baffled by The Villages approach to golf course maintenance.

Two of the biggest problems facing golf course managers all over the world, is the cost of equipment and the difficulty of staffing (the other is weather).

Because in much of the world, golf is "seasonal", it's difficult and costly to maintain staff, particularly when you have to layoff 75% of your staff, during the off season. The Villages does not face this dilemma.

Because the golf courses are so localized, a 1st Class General Superintendent (read that as highly paid) can probably manage a staff of 8-10 "local superintendents".

The cost of equipment to maintain a golf course, is a big deal. Should a course buy its own "rolling equipment", even if it's only going to be used a dozen time per year? Should a course buy its own Aeration equipment, both hollow-tine & deep, when a course is only going to be aerated twice a year? How many Power Rakes can we justify? How large of a "sod farm" should we have?

With over 50 Executive Golf courses to be maintained, The Villages could use that equipment, 365 days/year.

The same theory goes for heavy-equipment, given The Villages always seems to be renovating 4-6 courses.

So my question is, has The Villages ever managed their own golf maintenance and/or renovation projects? If not, why not? The "economies of scale", seem to dictate that approach, does it not?

Just a window from the outside looking in, but it seems that The Villages golf operations could be much more efficient, productive and professional, if it were all centralized, under professional leadership and direction. Am I missing something?

Maybe it is centralized and that is why so many of the courses are in HORRIBLE shape??

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Marathon Man

Yes, they do. But that is because most residents have not taken the time to learn how our community works. There are many who that believe that the Morse family owns everything inside 'the bubble'.

Since you have time, I suggest that a good place to begin is to develop an understanding of all the parts and pieces of "The Villages". It is well worth the time. Take a look at Resident Academy (hopefully the still offer it).

So no one knows the answer to my question?

Did the Developer ever self-maintain the Championship Golf Courses (post-construction)?

Did the controlling CDD's ever self-maintain the Executive courses in their portfolio or contract out the maintenance to a single entity?

[Bruceg0028]

The course maintenance is difficult with the amount of play at this time of year. Not only for the executive courses but also the championship ones.

With the growth of TV to the south new golf courses are not keeping pace with the population growth. They keep adding pitch and putts and putting courses. While fun to play they do not reduce the play on the traditional courses.

Seems like houses on land instead of new courses is the priority.

Perhaps for guests and renters there should be a limited amount of times a week they can play. Also for every so many new villages added there should be a requirement for 1 new executive course. The number could be higher for championship courses.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by MarkD1981

Outsourcing will not shield you from liability. Lawyers will follow the money and The Villages has plenty. Jurors are sympathetic towards plaintiffs.

The developer still owns the course.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by mkjelenbaas

Maybe it is centralized and that is why so many of the courses are in HORRIBLE shape??

It is not.

The CDD's & the Developer out-source all golf course maintenance.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the outside contractors have business relationships with the people involved with the aforementioned entities, but that's strictly wild speculation.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

A couple of people on here hit it on the head---T.V. is a business and it's to build houses. NOT provide you stellar (fill in the blank) whatever you feel we need. Would it all be wonderful and nice? Yep!! Central Florida was a rural area and not a metro one. People here came for "Life-styles"---loved what they saw and decided to move here.
:

The Villages (or the various neighborhoods) is not a business, it is a community.

The "Developer" is a business.

The CDD's are GOVERNMENT.

The Developer promised everyone who bought a home in TV, reasonable access to decent golf.

The CDD's obligation, is to maintain the infrastructure and amenities the Developer provided and promised the residents.

This is no different than someone who bought a home on a beautiful, private, tree lined street a developer built and then the city or town turned it into a dirt road. They'd be hell to pay.

It really is that simple.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

It is not.

The CDD's & the Developer out-source all golf course maintenance.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the outside contractors have business relationships with the people involved with the aforementioned entities, but that's strictly wild speculation.

Not all championship courses are sourced to outside maintenance crews. Two or possibly three courses are maintained by maintenance staffs that are employees of TV’s….not the district. SO is one course maintained by a staff employed by TV’s.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by John Mayes

Not all championship courses are sourced to outside maintenance crews. Two or possibly three courses are maintained by maintenance staffs that are employees of TV’s….not the district. SO is one course maintained by a staff employed by TV’s.

When you say, "maintenance staffs that are employees of TV", I assume you mean "employees of the Developer/golf course owner" ?

I was told by numerous sources, that all the Championship courses were out-sourced for maintenance. I'd be curious to know which courses are maintained by actual employees of the Developer.