[waynet]

Houselover,I beg to differ. Soft sand that is 5 inches deep is not better than hard sand. Like others you are changing the subject. It is not about how many bunkers I hit into, it is not about my practice habits it is the condition of the bunkers in the Villages. They are awful.By the way I hit into 4 bunkers today.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by waynet

Soft sand that is 5 inches deep is not better than hard sand.

I agree. If balls are consistently plugging there is a problem, and its no good for the course because it will contribute to slow play. What really bugs me is when they churn the sand all the way up the sides of the bunkers, so the balls plug, but in the bottom of the bunkers there is very little sand at all, and you can't do an explosion shot because you'd hit hardpan.

[Houselover]

Originally Posted by waynet

Houselover,I beg to differ. Soft sand that is 5 inches deep is not better than hard sand. Like others you are changing the subject. It is not about how many bunkers I hit into, it is not about my practice habits it is the condition of the bunkers in the Villages. They are awful.By the way I hit into 4 bunkers today.

Thanks for the additional info about the depth of the sand and the addl info from other posts about the raking of the sand. I agree that the raking sometimes is not what it should be. When I encounter conditions like that and others tell the people at the pro shop after playing. Does TV have a what we called at our old club a greens committee where we could voice our concerns?
Finally, upon rereading my original reply, I did stray from the original post and I apologize for making it personal..HL

[collie1228]

I agree that the sand currently being installed in TV is way to soft. Lopez and TDS are prime examples. When you step into a bunker and your feet sink-in 2-3 inches, you know getting out is going to be difficult, even if the ball is not plugged. In soft green side bunkers I no longer use my sand wedge and seem to get better results with a 9-iron or PW. From fairway bunkers, I find it impossible to use a longer club and mostly use a 7-iron.

[CraigC]

Originally Posted by ednagrahm

Based on what I've seen and heard over the years, a 5 Hdcp golfer can't really relate to the over 50% of all golfers whose handicaps are 18 and above. Those in the latter category do NOT practice and should not be chastised for not doing so. All TV courses where sands traps have been recently redone have too much sand, it's too soft and it's unfortunately raked to it's thickest near the upper greenside lip. You simply don't see traps in that condition on good courses that are maintained by crews that understand golf. Can't remember ever seeing a lie on a PGA or European Tour event like those that the OP is referring to. To compare the difficulty of these soft sand traps to the Old Course at St. Andrews, as someone did, is not a rational comparison to anyone who has seen, first hand, the shape and side walls of the bunkers at that course as I have during my working career as an LPGA official. Their difficulty has nothing at all to do with the consistency of the sand. Some negative comments are justified despite the fact that many responders don't seem to understand that they just might be justifiable.

You hit the nail on the head, Edna! I have seen three balls that hit on the upper greenside lip that were LOST, because the ball could not be seen at all on Villages championship courses in the last month.

Wayne is not complaining that he cannot hit the ball out of a trap, he is complaining that the sand is so soft that the ball is completely or almost completely buried. This is NOT normal. Actually, I think that the better golfers are most likely to see this phenomenon, because it is most likely to happen when the shot is hit very high and just missed clearing the trap. It won't happen to those who roll their ball into the trap.

Maybe the way to get their attention is to get a rake and start digging up the trap until the ball is found.

[waynet]

Craig,We dug up a bunker yesterday on No.1 Caroline up in the face. We found my partners golf ball and found a brand new Titleist ProV. I stopped digging at one foot deep and showed the ambassador who smiled and said "terrible aren't they".

[Tawarmbrod]

I agree that the bunkers are way to soft, in fact as a newbie here that is really the only complaint I have about the golf courses.

[jimmy D]

The problem with the Sand Bunkers (not traps) is that since they are not inside nor under roof, they are exposed to the weather and sometimes the weather plays havoc with the terrain. I would suggest to lay up short and then hit a High Pitch shot. (please fix the divot on the green) and then just 2 putt, smile and move on to the next hole. If you are continually in the Bunkers you will eventually fiqure out how to hit out from them. or don't go in them. Keep raking those Bunkers.

[golf2140]

Originally Posted by waynet

played Havana yesterday. The absolute worst bunkers I have ever played. Better traps on $5.oo Munis. One of my partners lost a ball in the sand. Why do they insist on softening the sand? Stupid. Waste of manpower,machinery and time. Mallory today and it will be the same garbage. Hit the ball in the sand and look for your plugged ball. Yes,I have complained to anyone that will listen. Also have never got an answer to why all the churning of sand.

Played both this weekend. Not a problem

[JP]

The only complaint I have with the sand traps is when the sand gets "low" you are hitting all those little styrofoam thingies in the "bottom" of the traps. It seems like some of the traps need more sand!

[fred53]

Originally Posted by JP

The only complaint I have with the sand traps is when the sand gets "low" you are hitting all those little styrofoam thingies in the "bottom" of the traps. It seems like some of the traps need more sand!

and if you report the conditions and where they are they'll likely be addressed in order of importance...but they do get fixed.

Good luck to you all...practice makes for a luckier golfer...

[drcar]

Originally Posted by waynet

first,thank you Edna....It seems like some of you think its OK for a ball to plug in a bunker and take a minute or two to find it. Balls are not supposed to plug in bunkers almost all the time. That is simply a bad bunker.As for my skill level,if that matters, I am a 4 handicap. I can play the game and part of the game is the skill it takes not just to get out of bunkers but to try to get it close to save par. A plugged ball takes away all the skill of a sand shot. Just get it out. I repeat the bunkers here are bad,very bad. Played Mallory today. Bunkers are terrible.

I am a 15 hanicap, played Havanna today shot a 78, had to play out of the sand on several shots. I thought the traps were fair and the course in great condition. People here complain if the sand is to loose, compact, too much, not enough etc. The grass is too long, too short, greens too fast, not fast enought. I have played under all conditions, and learn to adjust. If i have a problem it is people not raking. Easy solition to your issue, stay out of the sand, or play some where else. By the way lets replace the sand with water hazzards and see what happens, JUST SAYING!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by drcar

I am a 15 hanicap, played Havanna today shot a 78, had to play out of the sand on several shots. I thought the traps were fair and the course in great condition. People here complain if the sand is to loose, compact, too much, not enough etc. The grass is too long, too short, greens too fast, not fast enought. I have played under all conditions, and learn to adjust. If i have a problem it is people not raking. Easy solition to your issue, stay out of the sand, or play some where else. By the way lets replace the sand with water hazzards and see what happens, JUST SAYING!

Yup. That is probably why they call them sand TRAPS. Not sand conveniences.

[michaelkir]

Some sand is soft, deep, and fluffy. Some sand is hard packed. Some rough is thick and long, some is thin and short. Some greens are quick some slow and shaggy. The course is the course. I think that's the way it is suppose to be?? Just my opinion.

[waynet]

After reading some posts it quite obvious that some of you like slow shaggy greens,soft"oatmeal" sand traps,inconsistent rough,and if I don't like those things then I should stay out of the sand,or lay up short of them,or practice more or just don't play here. I guess as long as some people think that way there will be no improvements to any of the golf courses because as one of you wrote "the course is the course". That's just unfortunate.