[tommy steam]

I spoke with several master gardeners right here in the villages at the UF annex by the sheriffs office and also attended several of the classes given by the UF at the community centers. They were the ones who brought the subject up. I took it as great information from people who know about the proper plants and trees to grow here.

[Laurie2]

Now. I know. I am a loser. A pariah. I might even be stupid.

I did not know that, until this thread took off.

When I started reading the thread, I just wanted to learn about palm trees. But as the thread continued, oh my goodness, that is when my loserdom became all too apparent.

Yes. I have a couple of queen palms in my yard. Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

I did not plant them. But I want to take care of them. Until they offend me in some unforgivable way. And then it will be, "Off with their heads! And their butts!"

I have to laugh because on TOTV sometimes people sure can get into it a bit. Or maybe I am just laughing to try to hide my shame. My loserness. Hey. I sure can't hide those big queen palms out there in my yard.

But for now, I just want to take care of what I have. So thank you for trying to help those of us who are harboring big, tall, lovely queen palms, here in Zone 9a, as we teeter on the brink.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by tommy steam

Just curious, why are you giving all this information on queen palms? When I talked to the master gardeners here, they told me not to plant those palms in this area because of all the problems associated with them.

Originally Posted by Ozzello

If you go back to the beginning post, I stated why. Because there is a lot of mis-information floating around lately about Queen Palms. I base my posts here on my education and 40 years of experience, not someone else's opinion, most likely from another geographical zone.

So, how many master gardener's did you speak to? Out of curiosity. Though I know the Master Gardner's course is put on by UF, in Gainseville, zone what..8 or 7? Last time a mature Queen palm froze in this area, was back in the 80s after TWO 100 year/cycle freezes back to back. We lost about 1-2%. I am aplant guy, not a math guy though, so not sure on the odds of another 2- 100 year freezes hitting this area , 2 years in a row.

Originally Posted by tommy steam

I spoke with several master gardeners right here in the villages at the UF annex by the sheriffs office and also attended several of the classes given by the UF at the community centers. They were the ones who brought the subject up. I took it as great information from people who know about the proper plants and trees to grow here.

The University of Florida does not recommend planting Queen palms anywhere in Florida.

They are considered undesirable.

[Ozzello]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

The University of Florida does not recommend planting Queen palms anywhere in Florida.

They are considered undesirable.

Nope, this is NOT an official UF recommendation at all, nor anything taught a professor at UF teaching horticulture. Just a person's opinion on the Master Gardener's staff.

In certain circles, there are those with the opinion that only native species should be planted, or that only plants and trees that produce edible fruits and nuts be planted. Some would say you should only plant drought tolerant species. Though each of these opinions has merit, it would be a boring world, and detrimental in the long run to delete ANY species from the earth.
There have been may mistakes made introducing invasive species to non-native locations, but barring a species being invasive in your location, it is all about comparing the good and bad traits that EVERY plant has and deciding if you think that plant or tree is worth the trouble.
Everyone has an opinion, but the 'anti' opinion always seems to speak the loudest. Focusing on a weakness, they point fingers and dance around in verbal witch hunts spouting opinions and outright lies as if they are facts. If you look for yourself, you will see in the established areas of TV, many healthy and beautiful queen palms, many of them planted over a decade ago. There are many other great palms out there to plant, native and non-native species of conifers and deciduous trees as well, each has pros and cons. The funny thing about most of the people loudly proclaiming their opinion about what they are against, is they are rarely actually FOR anything, and if they are, it is only their own selfish agendas.

[sandybill2]

Originally Posted by Laurie2

Now. I know. I am a loser. A pariah. I might even be stupid.

I did not know that, until this thread took off.

When I started reading the thread, I just wanted to learn about palm trees. But as the thread continued, oh my goodness, that is when my loserdom became all too apparent.

Yes. I have a couple of queen palms in my yard. Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

I did not plant them. But I want to take care of them. Until they offend me in some unforgivable way. And then it will be, "Off with their heads! And their butts!"

I have to laugh because on TOTV sometimes people sure can get into it a bit. Or maybe I am just laughing to try to hide my shame. My loserness. Hey. I sure can't hide those big queen palms out there in my yard.

But for now, I just want to take care of what I have. So thank you for trying to help those of us who are harboring big, tall, lovely queen palms, here in Zone 9a, as we teeter on the brink.

I'm with you Laurie. Moved here in '07--house built in '04--4th owner. Had two Queens in front yard---don't know who planted them but I do love the Queens. We lost one a few years after we moved here due to cold but the one left is beautiful.

Three or four of our neighbors had them but someone came through the neighborhood and "poked" their finger in the bark and told them they had "the rot"--therefore, they had them cut down. I didn't let them "poke" mine --- it looks healthy--is so full and we will take care of it as long as we can.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Ozzello

Nope, this is NOT an official UF recommendation at all, nor anything taught a professor at UF teaching horticulture. Just a person's opinion on the Master Gardener's staff.

In certain circles, there are those with the opinion that only native species should be planted, or that only plants and trees that produce edible fruits and nuts be planted. Some would say you should only plant drought tolerant species. Though each of these opinions has merit, it would be a boring world, and detrimental in the long run to delete ANY species from the earth.
There have been may mistakes made introducing invasive species to non-native locations, but barring a species being invasive in your location, it is all about comparing the good and bad traits that EVERY plant has and deciding if you think that plant or tree is worth the trouble.
Everyone has an opinion, but the 'anti' opinion always seems to speak the loudest. Focusing on a weakness, they point fingers and dance around in verbal witch hunts spouting opinions and outright lies as if they are facts. If you look for yourself, you will see in the established areas of TV, many healthy and beautiful queen palms, many of them planted over a decade ago. There are many other great palms out there to plant, native and non-native species of conifers and deciduous trees as well, each has pros and cons. The funny thing about most of the people loudly proclaiming their opinion about what they are against, is they are rarely actually FOR anything, and if they are, it is only their own selfish agendas.

Your rant is missing the point of many of the posts to this thread. Yes, there are many Queen palms that are healthy, although I must say many of them have frizzle top. Okay -- healthy, green, trimmed properly, etc. BUT -- they are on Florida's do not plant list. This has nothing to do with a personal opinion. This is from the U of F.

There are plenty of Brazillian Peppers and Melaleucas that are healthy. Should you be planting them or not taking them out because they are healthy? No! Of course not.

[kittygilchrist]

Http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/st609

I have completed the Master Gardener training and I'm currently performing volunteer hours in order to become certified. It is disturbing to see how much misinformation is being given without citing of sources.

For example, the link above from the UF source used by master gardeners throughout the state clearly gives the zones in which planting queen palms is safe for cold hardiness. Sumter County is in zone 9a and therefore not appropriate for planting Queen Palms. No recommendations against them are made except to prevent loss due to cold.

The University of Florida Institute of food and agricultural sciences, or ifas, is easily searchable for the same research disseminated by the extension office.

I encourage anyone who would like the horses mouth to speak regarding plant concerns to either directly contact the master gardeners or the extension office or to search for themselves online.

[kittygilchrist]

http://sumter.ifas.ufl.edu/pdfs/Cold%20Protection.pdf

So are we really in the tropics and nearly immune from freeze? No.
Ifas, UF info based on data and research...see link.

[Ozzello]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

Your rant is missing the point of many of the posts to this thread. Yes, there are many Queen palms that are healthy, although I must say many of them have frizzle top. Okay -- healthy, green, trimmed properly, etc. BUT -- they are on Florida's do not plant list. This has nothing to do with a personal opinion. This is from the U of F.

There are plenty of Brazillian Peppers and Melaleucas that are healthy. Should you be planting them or not taking them out because they are healthy? No! Of course not.

Frizzle Top: Not sure what you call "many", but I see very little. I did have a customer with a queen almost dead from frizzle top last year. He began adding Manganese sulfate, and the palm has completely recovered.
Frizzle top is listed as a disease, but it is simply a Manganese deficiency, typically caused by adding Epsom salts without additional Manganese.

You say queens are on Florida's do not plant list, then you say it is from UF. As I said before, this is NOT UF's nor the State of FL's list, merely the opinion of one man hosting the Master Gardener Club.

Brazillian Peppers and Melaleuca ARE on the States invasive species do not plant list, hardly a comparison to the queen palm.

[Ozzello]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

http://sumter.ifas.ufl.edu/pdfs/Cold%20Protection.pdf

So are we really in the tropics and nearly immune from freeze? No.
Ifas, UF info based on data and research...see link.

The average lowest temperature for this area, is 26 degrees F. The queen palm can handle several hours at 22 degrees, and even an hour or 2 in the high teens.

Temperatures in Ocala (North of here and not in the same zone) have been the high teens only 7 times in the last 40 years.

[Ozzello]

Originally Posted by tommy steam

I spoke with several master gardeners right here in the villages at the UF annex by the sheriffs office and also attended several of the classes given by the UF at the community centers. They were the ones who brought the subject up. I took it as great information from people who know about the proper plants and trees to grow here.

I think the Master Gardener's course is great, for the average homeowner that likes gardening. I began the course, and found some useful information, though not much, considering I have taken several courses on horticulture and propagation, and read everything I could find over the last 30 years.
In addition to that, I have studied under and worked for some of the greatest horticulturists In the state and even the U.S. These guys had Master DEGREES, and Doctorates in the field.

I didn't finish the Master Gardeners course, because I didn't have the free time to volunteer. I did find the training course full of helpful tips, etc. but nowhere close to what I learned from talking to Jerry Baker and reading his books, the college courses I took and the college books I read, working in horticulture in THIS ZONE for over 30 years, running my own nursery, or the semester under Eddie Boston's teachings.
The same experts saying queen palms won't live here, will say Bizmark palms won't either, yet all the ones I planted 15 years ago, still look great.

I will say, that if you are looking to grow queen palms for commercial purposes, it does get to cold here for seedling queen palms, and cold enough some winters to affect optimal trunk formation.
But anyone who thought they lost a mature queen palm in TV to the cold, that isn't talking about 1989, probably actually lost it to bud beetles or lethal yellowing.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Ozzello

Frizzle Top: Not sure what you call "many", but I see very little. I did have a customer with a queen almost dead from frizzle top last year. He began adding Manganese sulfate, and the palm has completely recovered.
Frizzle top is listed as a disease, but it is simply a Manganese deficiency, typically caused by adding Epsom salts without additional Manganese.

You say queens are on Florida's do not plant list, then you say it is from UF. As I said before, this is NOT UF's nor the State of FL's list, merely the opinion of one man hosting the Master Gardener Club.

Brazillian Peppers and Melaleuca ARE on the States invasive species do not plant list, hardly a comparison to the queen palm.

Why this die-hard defense you keep spewing, of Queen palms? Queen palms are not a desirable palm, except to the unknowing who simply like their looks and know nothing about them. There are tons of palms and trees that are significanatly better choices. There is something about your posts that makes one think there is more to it than just simple opinions. It is very easy to cite an abundance of credentials because we, the readers, would have to believe you (or not) because you do not substantiate anythingg.

I never compared the Brazillian pepper and Maelaleuca to the Queen palm so don't put words in my mouth.

In The Villages, many Queen palms have frizzle top -- yes many. If your "customer" had a tree that was almost dead from frizzle top, it would have taken years for the "cure" because the manganese only cures new growth, not the existing growth.

Your two pages of back and forth posts gives one pause to wonder about them . . .

[philnpat]

I personally love the look of Queen palms. We've had a couple of Queens as well as several other types for a few years. they are all doing well but the queens are my favorite.
It's good to hear another informed opinion on them from someone who likes them as well.
Thanks Ozzello

[njbchbum]

Ozzello - Thanx for all the knowledge you have shared with us re Queen Palms, other palms and trees. And re the epsom salts - our Sylvester was looking poorly and the fellow who does our weeding suggested the epsom salts. Did that and it is now one of the happiest looking palms on the block. The color came back and it is beautiful!

And your statement, "Everyone has an opinion, but the 'anti' opinion always seems to speak the loudest."...Sometimes it is just a matter of those who think they know more than others who have to rant/express themselves. Experience will always overcome opinion in my book; and all information is education. Some is just more reliable that other. Thanx again for taking the time to post.