[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by biker1

I saw some recent estimates of the incremental amount of electrical power needed if all cars were instantaneously replaced with EVs (I don't believe it included trucks). The amount was surprising small - about a 30% increase would be needed. This is encouraging as this is not an insurmountable amount and there is time (about 20 years) to ramp up electrical production. I say about 20 years because the transition will be slow as the average age of cars today is about 12 years and gas cars will still be produced 10 years from now. The bad news is that electrical production has been constant for the last decade at about 4T kWh.

Please cite this report...

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by biker1

I saw some recent estimates of the incremental amount of electrical power needed if all cars were instantaneously replaced with EVs (I don't believe it included trucks). The amount was surprising small - about a 30% increase would be needed. This is encouraging as this is not an insurmountable amount and there is time (about 20 years) to ramp up electrical production. I say about 20 years because the transition will be slow as the average age of cars today is about 12 years and gas cars will still be produced 10 years from now. The bad news is that electrical production has been constant for the last decade at about 4T kWh.

True, but I see no point in considering what to do to support instantly converting 300 million cars to EVs - that will take decades. I am sure you know by now I am all in on EVs. but we do need infrastructure improvements to make them practical in more use cases. And, luckily, if we start now, we can have those changes ready when production is ramped up to todays levels for ICE.

[biker1]

Calm down - I was not considering it as we can't instantly convert all cars to electrics. Just pointing out the actual energy requirements compared to what we can produce now.

Originally Posted by MartinSE

True, but I see no point in considering what to do to support instantly converting 300 million cars to EVs - that will take decades. I am sure you know by now I am all in on EVs. but we do need infrastructure improvements to make them practical in more use cases. And, luckily, if we start now, we can have those changes ready when production is ramped up to todays levels for ICE.

[biker1]

Not a report, although there is probably some out there. I got the numbers from the following engineer who runs a Youtube channel on various topics associated with cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Please cite this report...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

well let's see. I will accept I brought it up first, I don't recall now.

Actually, I see many references to the street legal version being capable of up to 35.

I think the use cases I mentioned going to work, going to shop, etc, typical daily use case for MOST Americans, only requires occupancy of 1 or 2.

Farting in any enclosed car with the windows closed is a bad idea. Some have activated charcoal, Tesla's have a biohazard filtration - how many ICE cars have biohazard protection built in? LOL!

I clearly stated it in no way competed with even economy cars, like Toyota Yaris on features, that it was in fact very limited. But, I do believe there is a sizable market from college students, to poor working class, and more for a not frills basic mode of transportation.

I owned about the most basic car available - 1970 VW Beetle - and loved it.

So, you want people who are struggling to purchase a 2nd car for work or errands?

And the VW Beetle was a limo compared to the Atomic...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by biker1

Not a report, although there is probably some out there. I got the numbers from the following engineer who runs a Youtube channel on various topics associated with cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

Oh, god... Soooo many assumptions... Yes energy production increased greatly 40 years ago, but it is increasing at a much slower rate today. The same with battery advances... To compare the two is foolish...

[biker1]

He did an estimate of power requirements based on first principles and stated the assumptions. This is what scientists and engineers often do. I know, I am a retired research scientist. I already stated that power generation has been flat for the last decade. I see you haven't disputed his numbers. Provide your own if you can do better. However, I won't be back as I have no interest in reading any more obnoxious posts.

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Oh, god... Soooo many assumptions... Yes energy production increased greatly 40 years ago, but it is increasing at a much slower rate today. The same with battery advances... To compare the two is foolish...

[noslices1]

Originally Posted by DaleDivine

Where do you find a grass cutter for a "couple of bucks a month"?

You need a time machine.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by biker1

He did an estimate of power requirements based on first principles and stated the assumptions. This is what scientists and engineers often do. I know, I am a retired research scientist. I already stated that power generation has been flat for the last decade. I see you haven't disputed his numbers. Provide your own if you can do better. However, I won't be back as I have no interest in reading any more obnoxious posts.

It's a youtube video from some random guy...

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

So, you want people who are struggling to purchase a 2nd car for work or errands?

And the VW Beetle was a limo compared to the Atomic...

No, I didn't say that. Many poor do not have a car at all, it would be a first. A car, even an Atomic would open a lot of job opportunities. In no way am I suggesting that it would be a solution for everyone, or even most. We really need to stop looking for a silver bullet and work on use case solutions optimized for each user.

An example of being POOR, I was homeless for a while back in the late 90's. I eventually managed to find work, it was NOT easy without a car, or a way to travel to the interview or the job. The job I eventually found was on the opposite side of Denver from where we were able to afford a motel room (once I had a job), so I used the bus system to get around. It took my 2 hours each day to get to work and get home. I was lucky. I was a software engineer, and the job I fairly found paid well enough that in a couple months I could afford an apartment, and a used clunker which reduced my travel time to 20 minutes each way. People working 2 or 3 jobs a day have almost NO time for anything else, including their children. (which is the subject of another thread and one reason for such negative education outcomes.)

So, I know first hand how even a crappy car, that is inexpensive to buy and operate can go a long way in helping the poor.

The VW cost more to operate than the Atomic (or some other cheap EV). It did not have AC, it had a habit of changing lanes when a large truck passed to close. It was NOT a limo by any stretch. And, to your earlier post (someplace) a family of 5 would have had problems with a VW Beetle. And yet back in 1972 was proclaimed the highest selling car in history, with a record 15 million copies sold. So, at least some people liked they idea of a basic bare bones inexpensive means of transportation.

I loved my Bottle, but I would never want another one. On the other hand, my wife and I have been considering some form of EV since MOST of our driving is within 15 miles or so, one way. Currently the Tesla is in the running for the potential of FSD. But, Atomic is a leading option since it is so cheap, we could get one, and sell it later when I get the Tesla and not be out very much. Atomic's are cheaper than some Golf Carts sold here in TV. And it does have AC, Power windows. radio, etc.

[Two Bills]

I think we should change the name of TOTV to the Martin and Mintzer Show!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

No, I didn't say that. Many poor do not have a car at all, it would be a first. A car, even an Atomic would open a lot of job opportunities. In no way am I suggesting that it would be a solution for everyone, or even most. We really need to stop looking for a silver bullet and work on use case solutions optimized for each user.

An example of being POOR, I was homeless for a while back in the late 90's. I eventually managed to find work, it was NOT easy without a car, or a way to travel to the interview or the job. The job I eventually found was on the opposite side of Denver from where we were able to afford a motel room (once I had a job), so I used the bus system to get around. It took my 2 hours each day to get to work and get home. I was lucky. I was a software engineer, and the job I fairly found paid well enough that in a couple months I could afford an apartment, and a used clunker which reduced my travel time to 20 minutes each way. People working 2 or 3 jobs a day have almost NO time for anything else, including their children. (which is the subject of another thread and one reason for such negative education outcomes.)

So, I know first hand how even a crappy car, that is inexpensive to buy and operate can go a long way in helping the poor.

The VW cost more to operate than the Atomic (or some other cheap EV). It did not have AC, it had a habit of changing lanes when a large truck passed to close. It was NOT a limo by any stretch. And, to your earlier post (someplace) a family of 5 would have had problems with a VW Beetle. And yet back in 1972 was proclaimed the highest selling car in history, with a record 15 million copies sold. So, at least some people liked they idea of a basic bare bones inexpensive means of transportation.

I loved my Bottle, but I would never want another one. On the other hand, my wife and I have been considering some form of EV since MOST of our driving is within 15 miles or so, one way. Currently the Tesla is in the running for the potential of FSD. But, Atomic is a leading option since it is so cheap, we could get one, and sell it later when I get the Tesla and not be out very much. Atomic's are cheaper than some Golf Carts sold here in TV. And it does have AC, Power windows. radio, etc.

Drive one, then get back to me... I have. A friend has one. I would NEVER take one on a regular road outside TV... It's a toy...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

I think we should change the name of TOTV to the Martin and Mintzer Show!

[OhioBuckeye]

You wasted a lot of time copying this. All I can say is buy one if you want. But most people can’t afford one. Just another govt. dream!

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by biker1

He did an estimate of power requirements based on first principles and stated the assumptions. This is what scientists and engineers often do. I know, I am a retired research scientist. I already stated that power generation has been flat for the last decade. I see you haven't disputed his numbers. Provide your own if you can do better. However, I won't be back as I have no interest in reading any more obnoxious posts.

Don't go, he is actually one of the better posters here.

Here is a link to EIA, showing production flattening dove rate past 1 or 2 decades.\

U.S. energy facts explained - consumption and production - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)