[Fredster]

In order to better deal with healthcare,
maybe the first step would be to get our Federal Government in sound fiscal shape!
In my opinion, growing an inefficient and wasteful government is not the answer.

[perrjojo]

If I recall correctly the government is in charge of VA hospitals. How has that been working for Vetrans?

[canyonblue]

Originally Posted by Fredster

I think everyone should work in a Federal Government agency for a period of time in their lives,
then they might have a quite different outlook on government run healthcare when they see the inefficiency and waste!

If the government had to operate like a corporation with profit/loss accountabilities then maybe it could work. Instead it operates like a drunken sailor on leave and has no accountability on where the money goes. Just saying "government run" anything is enough to make me never want to see the idea at all.

[HimandMe]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

I have several friends living in Canada, France and The UK. I have spoken to each one of them about their system, and they love it. Their systems are more of a social democracy, and as I understand it, they are still market based. Yes, they pay higher taxes, but I wonder if anyone did a cost comparison between the amount of taxes paid vs. the cost of insurance. Just yesterday I had to pay $100 for a generic drug, because of the donut hole system. And it seems most dentists don't take insurance, or they don't take UHC insurance, and so we just had to pay over $700 for an initial visit.

Canada’s program began in the sixties. I don’t know if you can compare it to 2019. It has universal healthcare but I wouldn’t call it a socialist country. Taxes are higher... in a country with few people... if you have low-income and under 65, it is a good basic system. Otherwise additional insurance is required. The GST, goods and services tax, lowered prices to a point but it affects low income workers the most. Gas had always been high, like Europe, but less, even though there are so many resources in Alberta. Meds are much cheaper, even half what we pay. Many doctors left as they put a cap on earnings. Many RNs lost their jobs to less qualified help due I think to try and keep some doctors wages, and other expenses. Still, most like it. It’s not perfect. Unlike here 80% of the doctors are primary care GPs. Here, I believe most have specialized (for bigger bucks?) and 80% are specialists who only look at one part of the body. I won’t comment on pharmaceutical companies here, IMHO, a basic healthcare plus the option of purchasing insurance for other than basic needs seems good. Socialized anything is a risk iMHO and needs to be watched carefully. Look at socialization around the world, it’s a sad story and the reason Canada decentralized government in many areas. Yet, now with Trudeau back in, there is fear in many Canadians. Big government means less freedom and it is clearly seen in Canada’s healthcare and in other countries.

[HimandMe]

Originally Posted by Craig Vernon

I hope not. In my experiences at least the Canadian system sends thousands to the United States for care due to lack of equipment. Wait times for MRI or other routine issues here can take months if not years if the government decides it isn't urgent. They also pay three taxes on everything to pay for it. Boo!

I remember reading about Canada having one expensive diagnostic equipment, the only one in Canada, whereas most hospitals of size in the USA had them years before. Canada is a small country population wise 1/10th of the USA.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by canyonblue

If the government had to operate like a corporation with profit/loss accountabilities then maybe it could work. Instead it operates like a drunken sailor on leave and has no accountability on where the money goes. Just saying "government run" anything is enough to make me never want to see the idea at all.

The most valuable job attribute all elected federal and domestic positions enjoy?.....NO ACCOUNTABILITY!

[NotGolfer]

I met a woman who was renting here from Canada a few years back. Her husband developed a medical emergency and was hospitalized for much of their time here. She raved about the hospital and care. Said our hospital (get ready for it) was like a luxuary hotel. I'd not yet been in it so was expecting....oh.I.don't.know....something like from a movie?!!! Also...just today I heard commentary from a radio program where the guest spoke of the what the cost here would be for UHC and it's ridiculous. Someone else in this thread also said it...it would be 2 Trillion dollars and yes...."they" would expect the wealthy and corporations to foot the bill. Really???? I also agree not to let the government have the lead on this as it would become something of a nightmare. IF you are young and productive it "might" work but if you are old and sick....not so much.

[manaboutown]

If it happens prepare to wait, especially if you have cancer. NHS Key Statistics: England, October 2019 - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

[mikemalloy]

Why do we try to compare ourselves with other countries. How many of them have over 20 million undocumented individuals "living in the shadows" and not paying taxes?
I visited Cuba last year. Our guide was boasting about their free health care. Considering we were told to bring Kleenex with us because many Cuban bathrooms don't have toilet paper I didn't think that they had much to boast about. If a Cuban owns a car, it's because he had relatives in the US send him enough money to buy it. There once beautiful neighborhoods are now overgrown and in disrepair. But, they don't have to pay for health care. It's amazing Americans aren't trying to relocate there.
"

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by mikemalloy

Why do we try to compare ourselves with other countries. How many of them have over 20 million undocumented individuals "living in the shadows" and not paying taxes?
I visited Cuba last year. Our guide was boasting about their free health care. Considering we were told to bring Kleenex with us because many Cuban bathrooms don't have toilet paper I didn't think that they had much to boast about. If a Cuban owns a car, it's because he had relatives in the US send him enough money to buy it. There once beautiful neighborhoods are now overgrown and in disrepair. But, they don't have to pay for health care. It's amazing Americans aren't trying to relocate there.
"

Basically, you lay the blame for whatever regarding healthcare. With a blanket, and believe me, taxes are not the answers, even if your statement was true.

With very little research, I offer the following and it is easy to research, but more on that later
---------------------
"Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy/contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[2][3][4][5] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[6][7][8][9] There is scholarly consensus that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.[10] Sanctuary cities—which adopt policies designed to avoid prosecuting people solely for being in the country illegally—have no statistically meaningful impact on crime, and may reduce the crime rate.[11][12] Research suggests that immigration enforcement has no impact on crime rates.[13][14][11]"
--------------------------https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States


That responds to your blanket blaming of immigrants, but I agree that our immigration needs work, but talking is not something we do any longer

Healthcare can be resolved, but we keep being promised alternatives but never see them.. We HAD a plan that nobody will disagree needed work, and instead of resolving the issue, we are striving to dismay it, and it seems resolvable if we really cared.

I was shocked in reading the thread on "Medicare part D" and wonder why we, the voters don't demand answers. Seems to me that the situation described there is resolvable by elected officials of any party, and hopefully by both.

We talk in such generalities, demand no consequences for those responsible for making the laws. We don't even demand they talk.

I suggest it is all fixable, IF anyone wants to.

I was vocal and loud in my opposition to Obamacare, but I naively believed those who said it would be adjusted, etc and they were not telling the truth.

[eyc234]

How about going after the $6 billion (yes B) in fraud that occurs in the medicare/Medicaid systems. Go after that and then look at fixing the med system in this country. Punish the perpetrators to the max and increase the penalties to reduce/eliminate the fraud. You can hire more people to audit and put people to work.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Basically, you lay the blame for whatever regarding healthcare. With a blanket, and believe me, taxes are not the answers, even if your statement was true.

With very little research, I offer the following and it is easy to research, but more on that later
---------------------
"Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy/contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[2][3][4][5] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[6][7][8][9] There is scholarly consensus that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.[10] Sanctuary cities—which adopt policies designed to avoid prosecuting people solely for being in the country illegally—have no statistically meaningful impact on crime, and may reduce the crime rate.[11][12] Research suggests that immigration enforcement has no impact on crime rates.[13][14][11]"
--------------------------https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States


That responds to your blanket blaming of immigrants, but I agree that our immigration needs work, but talking is not something we do any longer

Healthcare can be resolved, but we keep being promised alternatives but never see them.. We HAD a plan that nobody will disagree needed work, and instead of resolving the issue, we are striving to dismay it, and it seems resolvable if we really cared.

I was shocked in reading the thread on "Medicare part D" and wonder why we, the voters don't demand answers. Seems to me that the situation described there is resolvable by elected officials of any party, and hopefully by both.

We talk in such generalities, demand no consequences for those responsible for making the laws. We don't even demand they talk.

I suggest it is all fixable, IF anyone wants to.

I was vocal and loud in my opposition to Obamacare, but I naively believed those who said it would be adjusted, etc and they were not telling the truth.

So if I understand this claim, with which I don’t agree, we are lucky to have paid out $18,500,000,000. in reported medical care for illegals in 2017 alone not to mention the additional housing, food, schooling, etc. paid for by the American taxpayer. (Per Forbes...). Yet, many American citizens long for such “free” services.

Numbers can be skewed to make it look like this is a great deal. It’s not, we need American citizens living within the laws for everyone and not a subset of standards for some people living off hard working Americans.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

So if I understand this claim, with which I don’t agree, we are lucky to have paid out $18,500,000,000. in reported medical care for illegals in 2017 alone not to mention the additional housing, food, schooling, etc. paid for by the American taxpayer. (Per Forbes...). Yet, many American citizens long for such “free” services.

Numbers can be skewed to make it look like this is a great deal. It’s not, we need American citizens living within the laws for everyone and not a subset of standards for some people living off hard working Americans.

Yeah, would it not be great if all American citizens lived within the laws, and everyone lived up to the same standard ?

I digress...you may have a point, but guess what.....our "leaders will not iscuss it. Refuse to. Lots of issues surrounding immigration and health care, LOTS, but we only aim one way.

Get used to it.....I mean the lack of any discussion, the need for something constructive that has unintended consequences. Sometimes, I marvel at the complete lack of caring in this country.

Again, you may have good points, but immigration is NOT the cause of our very serious healthcare problem.

But, we certainly agree that EVERY BODY should live up to the same standards and abide by the law.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Yeah, would it not be great if all American citizens lived within the laws, and everyone lived up to the same standard ?

I digress...you may have a point, but guess what.....our "leaders will not iscuss it. Refuse to. Lots of issues surrounding immigration and health care, LOTS, but we only aim one way.

Get used to it.....I mean the lack of any discussion, the need for something constructive that has unintended consequences. Sometimes, I marvel at the complete lack of caring in this country.

Again, you may have good points, but immigration is NOT the cause of our very serious healthcare problem.

But, we certainly agree that EVERY BODY should live up to the same standards and abide by the law.

Agreed, the conversation has been a non-starter for too long. There is constant talk of decreasing Medicare coverage to help with the shortfall but $18 and a half billion to $20 billion a year would go along way toward shoring it up.

How long will the American people tolerate lack of action, who knows?

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Basically, you lay the blame for whatever regarding healthcare. With a blanket, and believe me, taxes are not the answers, even if your statement was true.

With very little research, I offer the following and it is easy to research, but more on that later
---------------------
"Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy/contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[2][3][4][5] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[6][7][8][9] There is scholarly consensus that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.[10] Sanctuary cities—which adopt policies designed to avoid prosecuting people solely for being in the country illegally—have no statistically meaningful impact on crime, and may reduce the crime rate.[11][12] Research suggests that immigration enforcement has no impact on crime rates.[13][14][11]"
--------------------------https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

That responds to your blanket blaming of immigrants,

No it does not.... "research shows"? whose "research"? And in your very words " With very little research, I offer the following"
That crap is spewed from Wikipedia...where is your proof in links? Let me warn you that for every link you "prove" those wikipedia points, I can post just as many links to disprove.