[kathyspear]

Originally Posted by mikemalloy

I visited Cuba last year. Our guide was boasting about their free health care. Considering we were told to bring Kleenex with us because many Cuban bathrooms don't have toilet paper I didn't think that they had much to boast about. If a Cuban owns a car, it's because he had relatives in the US send him enough money to buy it. There once beautiful neighborhoods are now overgrown and in disrepair. But, they don't have to pay for health care. It's amazing Americans aren't trying to relocate there.
"

This might be zapped for being off topic, but FWIW: We did a cruise that visited Havana before those trips were stopped. I have been to many poor Caribbean islands but Cuba was the most depressing place I have ever visited. Very sad.

k.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by stan the man

Make more doctors ..You can't tell me that in a country the size of the United States we don't have millions of people that are qualified to be doctors today. Why is it we have to go to other countries to import doctors to come and work here at big salaries. If I go to India I'm quite sure if i go to a doctor he will not have america accent. Or came from the USA to practice in India. Stop with the baloney the AMA Controls the amount of doctors being produced in the United States and keeps it low so it is really no competition. So as all the experts claim that competition always lowers the price of everything let's make more hospitals produce more doctors. I'm really not quite sure that would work either as I look and see how many lawyers are produced in this country and still they charge a high price. Least the doctor has to go to school for many years to get his doctorates to bring and become an M.D. where real estate salespeople get 6% to do nothing.

IMO, Well for one malpractice insurance, USA full of ambulance chasing lawyers. USA invaded by foreign doctors scamming the system with test after test after test to run up the bill, you’re trumped up health problems require several medications which another way scam the system. They stay few years then move back to India live like kings or escape fraud.

[HimandMe]

I think Germany woke up and their healthcare coverage for those who cannot afford it and insurance for the rest (hopefully at reasonable prices works.

. Total socialist healthcare with a country with so many not paying taxes and those in congress saying free this, free that and you don’t even need to work shouldn’t make sense to anyone. Kids in colleges promoting such things should go live in their idealized political country and survive for one year there, then talk. That is not to say there is not a system that would work here.

Since on this thread there is comparison of other countries then read this.

This was just sent to me...probably easy to confirm:

Venezuela Time Line

1992 it became 3rd riches country in hemisphere (think of that a minute)
1997 It because 2nd largest purchaser of F-150
2001 Voted for Socialist President (income inequality)
2004 Private HEALTHCARE is completely socialized
2007 All private education becomes “free”
2009 All private ownership of hand guns banned
2012 Bernie Sanders praises their “American Dream”
2014 Opposition leaders are imprisoned
2016 Food / healthcare shortages become widespread
2017 CONSTITUTION and elections are suspended
2019 Unarmed citizens are massacred by their own country

It took only one generation of progressive leadership to plunge this country into Civil War.

[mikemalloy]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Basically, you lay the blame for whatever regarding healthcare. With a blanket, and believe me, taxes are not the answers, even if your statement was true.

With very little research, I offer the following and it is easy to research, but more on that later
---------------------
"Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy/contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[2][3][4][5] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[6][7][8][9] There is scholarly consensus that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.[10] Sanctuary cities—which adopt policies designed to avoid prosecuting people solely for being in the country illegally—have no statistically meaningful impact on crime, and may reduce the crime rate.[11][12] Research suggests that immigration enforcement has no impact on crime rates.[13][14][11]"
--------------------------https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States


That responds to your blanket blaming of immigrants, but I agree that our immigration needs work, but talking is not something we do any longer

Healthcare can be resolved, but we keep being promised alternatives but never see them.. We HAD a plan that nobody will disagree needed work, and instead of resolving the issue, we are striving to dismay it, and it seems resolvable if we really cared.

I was shocked in reading the thread on "Medicare part D" and wonder why we, the voters don't demand answers. Seems to me that the situation described there is resolvable by elected officials of any party, and hopefully by both.

We talk in such generalities, demand no consequences for those responsible for making the laws. We don't even demand they talk.

I suggest it is all fixable, IF anyone wants to.

I was vocal and loud in my opposition to Obamacare, but I naively believed those who said it would be adjusted, etc and they were not telling the truth.

So you found a "study" that claims how wonderful things are with border crashers. Here's another.

New FAIR Study: Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion Annually
September 27, 2017

|

IRLI Staff

Brunt of Costs Fall on State and Local Taxpayers



(Washington, D.C.) - Illegal immigration to the U.S. costs federal, state and local taxpayers a staggering net cost of $116 billion a year - an increase of some $16 billion compared to previous estimates - according to a new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The study is the most comprehensive to date on the cost to federal, state and local taxpayers of the nation's 12.5 million illegal immigrants and their 4.2 million citizen children.



Costs Soar



The report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” examines the cost of illegal immigration through a detailed analysis of federal, state and local programs that are available to the nation’s illegal immigrant population, their U.S.-born children, or accessed via fraud. The study tallies the impact on education, medical, justice/enforcement, welfare and other government programs. The report notes that the $116 billion cost of illegal immigration falls on state and local taxpayers disproportionately – by a ratio of roughly 2 to 1 – with state and local expenditures totaling $88.9 billion and Federal expenditures totaling $45.8 billion, with only approximately $19 billion recouped in taxes.



Taxes Paid Inadequate



The staggering total costs of illegal immigrants and their children outweigh the taxes paid to federal and state governments by a ratio of roughly 7 to 1, with costs at nearly $135 billion compared to tax revenues at nearly $19 billion.



All told, the nearly $135 billion paid out by federal and state and local taxpayers to cover the cost of the presence of 12.5 million illegal aliens and their 4.2 million citizen children amounts to approximately $8,075 per illegal alien and citizen child prior to taxes paid, or $6,940 per person after taxes are paid.



On the federal level, medical ($17.14 billion) is by far the highest cost, with law enforcement coming second ($13.15 billion) and general government services ($8 billion) third.



At the state and local level, education ($44.4 billion) was by far the largest expense, followed by general public services ($18.5 billion) and medical ($12.1 billion).



The study also includes cost and tax revenue estimates per state. The top three states based on total cost to state taxpayers for illegal immigrants and their children: California ($23 billion); Texas ($10.9 billion), and New York ($7.5 billion).

I do not believe that any countries that have free health care extend coverage to non citizens. They don't have the economic stress we have from porous borders.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by HimandMe

. Total socialist healthcare with a country with so many not paying taxes and those in congress saying free this, free that and you don’t even need to work shouldn’t make sense to anyone. Kids in colleges promoting such things should go live in their idealized political country and survive for one year there, then talk. That is not to say there is not a system that would work here.

Since on this thread there is comparison of other countries then read this.

This was just sent to me...probably easy to confirm:

Venezuela Time Line

1992 it became 3rd riches country in hemisphere (think of that a minute)
1997 It because 2nd largest purchaser of F-150
2001 Voted for Socialist President (income inequality)
2004 Private HEALTHCARE is completely socialized
2007 All private education becomes “free”
2009 All private ownership of hand guns banned
2012 Bernie Sanders praises their “American Dream”
2014 Opposition leaders are imprisoned
2016 Food / healthcare shortages become widespread
2017 CONSTITUTION and elections are suspended
2019 Unarmed citizens are massacred by their own country

It took only one generation of progressive leadership to plunge this country into Civil War.

Yes, you can confirm, an maybe or should have before posting this.

Venezuela refused to admit they had problem when oil income was reduced. Thy welcomed an authoritarian leader who eventually became butal, and that in concert with not acknowledging the economics at play.

I don't think a Bernie Snders jab in the middle makes this a serious anthology.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by mikemalloy

So you found a "study" that claims how wonderful things are with border crashers. Here's another.

New FAIR Study: Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion Annually
September 27, 2017

|

IRLI Staff

Brunt of Costs Fall on State and Local Taxpayers



(Washington, D.C.) - Illegal immigration to the U.S. costs federal, state and local taxpayers a staggering net cost of $116 billion a year - an increase of some $16 billion compared to previous estimates - according to a new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The study is the most comprehensive to date on the cost to federal, state and local taxpayers of the nation's 12.5 million illegal immigrants and their 4.2 million citizen children.



Costs Soar



The report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” examines the cost of illegal immigration through a detailed analysis of federal, state and local programs that are available to the nation’s illegal immigrant population, their U.S.-born children, or accessed via fraud. The study tallies the impact on education, medical, justice/enforcement, welfare and other government programs. The report notes that the $116 billion cost of illegal immigration falls on state and local taxpayers disproportionately – by a ratio of roughly 2 to 1 – with state and local expenditures totaling $88.9 billion and Federal expenditures totaling $45.8 billion, with only approximately $19 billion recouped in taxes.



Taxes Paid Inadequate



The staggering total costs of illegal immigrants and their children outweigh the taxes paid to federal and state governments by a ratio of roughly 7 to 1, with costs at nearly $135 billion compared to tax revenues at nearly $19 billion.



All told, the nearly $135 billion paid out by federal and state and local taxpayers to cover the cost of the presence of 12.5 million illegal aliens and their 4.2 million citizen children amounts to approximately $8,075 per illegal alien and citizen child prior to taxes paid, or $6,940 per person after taxes are paid.



On the federal level, medical ($17.14 billion) is by far the highest cost, with law enforcement coming second ($13.15 billion) and general government services ($8 billion) third.



At the state and local level, education ($44.4 billion) was by far the largest expense, followed by general public services ($18.5 billion) and medical ($12.1 billion).



The study also includes cost and tax revenue estimates per state. The top three states based on total cost to state taxpayers for illegal immigrants and their children: California ($23 billion); Texas ($10.9 billion), and New York ($7.5 billion).

I do not believe that any countries that have free health care extend coverage to non citizens. They don't have the economic stress we have from porous borders.

I thought I was clear that my lesson was ONLY because of your referring to immigration as the problem with heath care.

If blaming these folks makes you feel good, go for it.

But, if you want to discuss healthcare, you are on a wrong street.

Talk to those who are elected as to why, despite loud protestation, they ignore the problem of healthcare.

This does not mean I favor one form or another....it simply means when our leaders begin to discuss it, we are moving in the right direction on healthcare.

Blaming minorities for everything is just stupid, as we keep jailing those who do not fit the assigned slot

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I thought I was clear that my lesson was ONLY because of your referring to immigration as the problem with heath care.

If blaming these folks makes you feel good, go for it.

But, if you want to discuss healthcare, you are on a wrong street.

Talk to those who are elected as to why, despite loud protestation, they ignore the problem of healthcare.

This does not mean I favor one form or another....it simply means when our leaders begin to discuss it, we are moving in the right direction on healthcare.

Blaming minorities for everything is just stupid, as we keep jailing those who do not fit the assigned slot

This isn’t blaming minorities for everything so that flag doesn’t need to be waved. This is about all of the illegal, non citizens living in the pockets of American citizens.

[Boomer]

Sloooooowly I turn, step by step.

Why does all of this noise have to be in extremes?

A manageable, doable start is to resuscitate the ACA before it is too late. (Yeah. I know. I am repeating myself. I said that a buzillion posts earlier in this thread.)

They are stealthily coming after the protection of pre-existing conditions, the best part of the ACA. The cruelty of taking that protection away makes my skin crawl.

Even though many here are ensconced in Medicare, due to turning 65, surely there must be concern for younger family members and friends — and (in my dreams) concern for the overall health of the nation, both literally and figuratively.

Real solutions are there, but fixing healthcare has to be done in steps. Also, all the players have to be at the table, including insurance companies and corporations that make health insurance available to employees.

What happened to critical thinking skills — independent thinking, analytical thinking, realistic solution-seeking thinking?

Pogo was right.

(I gotta stop looking at this thread and make some phone calls to tell the people who could actually do something sensible what to do. uh huh)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by blueash

For all of you who have posted or are going to post that countries with Universal Health Care have poor care, or that their citizens hate it, or that you once met someone from Germany who wished for Americanized health care.. these sorts of questions are regularly asked by pollsters and researchers. You don't hear of citizen movements to scrap universal health care and replace it with private insurance anywhere, not even from the most conservation politicians in Europe. Tweak the system, yes. But copy the USA, no.

2014 US last in health care of 11 Western nations

2011 U.S. had the highest percentage of respondents who reported being very confident they would receive effective treatment (34.7%) and also the highest percentage saying they were not at all confident they would (9.2%). The U.S., meanwhile, had the highest percentage of respondents who believed that their health system was in need of complete rebuilding (25.4%).

.

That is completely wrong. I wish people would post links when they make such outrageous claims. There are very slight differences in definitions of live birth.
Sweden uses exactly the same definition as the US. Norway only counts those born at 12 weeks gestation who exhibit any signs of life, that's 3 months into a pregnancy. Finland uses the WHO definition of liveborn "'Liveborn' is the term for a newborn who breathes or shows other signs of life after birth" Our own CDC has looked very closely at infant mortality. Ours is terrible in part due to higher rates of prematurity [itself a reflection of poor prenatal care and poverty] But it is not just more premies


Please, come here and offer thoughts on improving health care for America, but don't make stuff up.

How many of these systems are financially solvent. I hear many stories of them going broke. They are not able to raise enough money through taxes to keep them going. The French system has been on the verge of collapse. I have friends in The UK that defend their system, and then complain that the government is not putting enough money into it. And of course, they always have the same mantra. "Tax the rich more".

The problem with trying to do this in The US is that it can't be paid for if we taxed the top 5% at 100%.

And even if we did, can we trust to government to run a cost efficient system that provides good service? What other government agencies can you think of that are cost efficient and well run?

[rustyp]

To all retirees not in favor of socialized health care we should give up our Medicare and pay for our fair share of health care on the open market like non retirees do. This way we can insure better and freer choices while preserving democracy. Or are we talking about just the other guys not on Medicare?

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Sloooooowly I turn, step by step.

Why does all of this noise have to be in extremes?

A manageable, doable start is to resuscitate the ACA before it is too late. (Yeah. I know. I am repeating myself. I said that a buzillion posts earlier in this thread.)

They are stealthily coming after the protection of pre-existing conditions, the best part of the ACA. The cruelty of taking that protection away makes my skin crawl.

Even though many here are ensconced in Medicare, due to turning 65, surely there must be concern for younger family members and friends — and (in my dreams) concern for the overall health of the nation, both literally and figuratively.

Real solutions are there, but fixing healthcare has to be done in steps. Also, all the players have to be at the table, including insurance companies and corporations that make health insurance available to employees.

What happened to critical thinking skills — independent thinking, analytical thinking, realistic solution-seeking thinking?

Pogo was right.

(I gotta stop looking at this thread and make some phone calls to tell the people who could actually do something sensible what to do. uh huh)

Discussion seems to have been replaced by "blaming" and disregarding anyone else in this country except US and those exactly like US.

ACA was/is not perfect......I was very opposed, BUT I figured that leaders would discuss it openly and make adjustments.

Obvious it was simply destroyed (openly saving the death knell for an election cycle...look it up...its true), and we are told it will be replaced. BY WHAT ?

Nobody talks anymore except about themselves, and of course WHO is to blame, and it is never US who allow this to go on.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by HimandMe

. Total socialist healthcare with a country with so many not paying taxes and those in congress saying free this, free that and you don’t even need to work shouldn’t make sense to anyone. Kids in colleges promoting such things should go live in their idealized political country and survive for one year there, then talk. That is not to say there is not a system that would work here.

Since on this thread there countries then read this.

This was just sent to me...probably easy to confirm:

Venezuela Time Line

1992 it became 3rd riches country in hemisphere (think of that a minute)
1997 It because 2nd largest purchaser of F-150
2001 Voted for Socialist President (income inequality)
2004 Private HEALTHCARE is completely socialized
2007 All private education becomes “free”
2009 All private ownership of hand guns banned
2012 Bernie Sanders praises their “American Dream”
2014 Opposition leaders are imprisoned
2016 Food / healthcare shortages become widespread
2017 CONSTITUTION and elections are suspended
2019 Unarmed citizens are massacred by their own country

It took only one generation of progressive leadership to plunge this country into Civil War.

Reminder of existing US socialism: fire dept, police dept, medicare, social security, to name a few.

[bagboy]

...

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Reminder of existing US socialism: fire dept, police dept, medicare, social security, to name a few.

Wondering where the huge payouts farmers receivd caused by a trade war fits. It dwarfs the amount that both parties agreed to give to automakers to save that industry.

It is a word that is used simply for politics and the true meaning is long gone.

[Mosells]

When we’re a socialist country we’ll have universal health care. Be careful what you wish for my friends, be careful.