[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

For what it's worth, and I'm sure not very much, I wholeheartedly agree with Jimbo, VPL, and shcisamax.

From my personal experience watching my parents slowly decline down a painful simultaneous path toward death (retired physician, nurse) I began to wonder if this was my inevitable future? I did a voluminous amount of reading searching for salvation or at least a course correction, and finally decided that the weight of SCIENTIFIC evidence was simply overwhelming in favor of a plant-based diet if I wanted to alter my destiny. If you're curious, my top three reading picks are:

The China Study by T. Colin Campbell (in GREAT scientific detail lays out the studies that show what the healthiest populations eat and what the unhealthiest populations eat, why the standard american diet "promotes" many types of cancer and how many diseases previously thought due to genetics are due to nutritional choices)

Whole by Campbell (also) (explains WHY you don't know what you don't know! Will definitely make you reconsider vitamin supplements!)

Super Immunity by Joel Fuhrman (mostly interesting, IMO, for the importance of intestinal health/bacteria to your overall health)


Previously, I'd consider myself very "mainstream" educated on nutrition and fairly strictly following the US FDA guidelines of limited red meat consumption, organic or free-range chicken and turkey, some wild salmon, and limited eggs and saturated fat. In short, I THOUGHT I ate pretty healthfully.

Boy was I wrong! When you had a question in life and your parents lacked the answer, someone (usually a wise uncle) chimed in with the adage, "Follow the money!" Wow was that ever great advice in the search for nutritional truth. There is a ton of money spreading an incredulous amount of bad information to keep the American consumer purchasing a lot of profitable, but unhealthy "food".

I learned I was NOT eating very optimally at all. I enjoy food, but I would not say I was previously a "foodie" like my wife who writes a food blog and is a paid reviewer, is a food photographer, and derives a GREAT amount of enjoyment from life via food. (Caveat, she's 5'4, 125 lbs) I mention these personal things only so the reader understands that food is enjoyed, a passion, but is not out of balance in our lives. It is still sustenance and that is important to keep in mind.

There is so much money intentionally being spent to obfuscate the health value or detriment of everything you consume that your mind would literally spin. Unfortunately, we all rely on the government appointed body (the FDA) tasked with ensuring and regulating our food supply for optimal nutrition and health to keep us healthy and safe and that trust is ABSOLUTELY MISPLACED!

At this point, I'm sure I have a dozen or more detractors ready to attack me as they have the previous posters, but I'm going to say that I will post my thoughts, but I'm exhausted attempting to convince the non-believers. Heart disease is the #1 KILLER in the United States, but is VIRTUALLY UNHEARD OF in 75% OF THE PLANET! You heard me, 75% of the human race suffers essentially NO heart disease! How can that possibly be? If you wish to learn, begin to become nutritionally literate and start with the books above. You'll find many more, but realize there are $BILLIONS at stake to convince you to continue consuming the standard american diet.

Finally, I'm at peace with the fact that many are "set in their ways", are healthy, or "healthy-enough", and don't wish to change their diet. I get it. My father is dying from a multitude of infirmities and I simply don't want to follow his path to his eventual grave. If I can alter my path and maintain a healthier life longer than my dad did, then I'm ahead of all the naysayers that say it's all pre-ordained.

Oh, and my foodie wife is now also vegan as well as my daughter. Our son is much healthier in his diet, but still only about half-way there. We're all individuals and we all thankfully have free choice, especially including our food choices! On this positive note, I think we can all agree.

Bon Appetit!

That was an excellent presentation of your view. Very logical and well documented. Your reasons are excellent and I respect them.

Most people have evaluated these choices and many people put very little effort into the selection and preparation of their food or read much on what is healthy.

When someone humanizes all animals then I feel that is outside of rational behavior. When someone does not research enough that they must take nutritional supplements to stay healthy, I question their food choices. There is no question that exercise and food choices improve optimum heart health. There is also a genetic factor too. My cholesterol is wonderful without statin's and I don't deserve it if you look at my fat intake. I think some of the worlds populations have some differing group genetics as well as some are working much harder physically than most people in this country which most likely would change their cardiac health.

I think I know how to raise responsible children. I think I know how to get along with most people. I think I understand my values, yet adjust them periodically. We all have our values and they are different for each of us.

Pushing them on other people can help other people or it can cause wars. But the discussion of nutrition is valuable. It is the HARPING of some that pushes my buttons.

You did not PUSH, B767drv. You presented your views, and very well too.

When we were renting a home here, waiting for this home to build, our landlords left ONE book, The China Study. I read it.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

...the discussion of nutrition is valuable. It is the HARPING of some that pushes my buttons...

Agree.

I don't even disagree with much of what is said about the benefits of eating vegetables. It is the harping and condescending attitude of some toward those who don't chose to fully adopt the "correct" views that pushes mine.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Most of us would never dream of trying to change anyone's diet. What people eat is their choice entirely.

I don't know why some folks are so militant about food choices..

In my opinion, your statements are disingenuous; you don't have to be "militant" because the food industry does all the promotional work for you.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I honestly didn't realize you could be a part-time Vegan.
Then I'm a Vegan too!

I don't think you're interested in a serious conversation but I'll at least do my part.

In your opinion, how many days would I have to not eat fish in order to earn the name vegan? 1 day? 2 days? 3 days? More? One week? One month?

I plan to stop eating the occasional 1.2 ounce of salmon and I'd like to know how long it's going to take to become a vegan again.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Jimbo. You are a great person. You are an amazing DIY-er. You are a great business owner. You are charming and sweet.

But take a deep breath.

About the above?

WE DON'T CARE.

And you've been known to suggest that others are condescending. Hmmm!

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by dbussone

And how about those forced to suffer the life of a slave to prepare vegan meals at restaurants waiting for the one order a week while hoping for one a day?

It might help if they would advertise that they have a great vegan meal special-offering. And it might help if they would use the word "healthy" in their ad. It doesn't have to be an ad placed by itself, but in with the rest of their advertized offerings.

What it shouldn't be, in my opinion: No high sodium vegan soy-burgers. No factory-made high sodium products of any kind.

The problem with a restaurant advertising a healthy vegan meal is that it might make their regular meat-eating customers wonder why the other menu items aren't referred to as healthy. Is everything else unhealthy?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

It might help if they would advertise that they have a great vegan meal special-offering. And it might help if they would use the word "healthy" in their ad. It doesn't have to be an ad placed by itself, but in with the rest of their offerings.

What it shouldn't be, in my opinion: No high sodium vegan soy-burgers. No factory-made high sodium products of any kind.

The problem with a restaurant advertising a healthy vegan meal is that it might make their regular meat-eating customers wonder why the other menu items aren't referred to as healthy. Is everything else unhealthy?

According to you, yes!

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by CFrance

According to you, yes!

Evidently, you missed the point of what I was saying.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

In your opinion, how many days would I have to not eat fish in order to earn the name vegan? 1 day? 2 days? 3 days? More? One week? One month?
I plan to stop eating the occasional 1.2 ounce of salmon and I'd like to know how long it's going to take to become a vegan again.

VPL, you've often made a point of saying that you are a healthy Vegan that follows a plant-based lifestyle.
That's my only point.
I don't care how much salmon you eat or if you eat at Arbys! Go ahead, knock yourself out.

I've enjoyed hearing some of the valid points raised by Jimbo, B767drvr, and others.
Personally, I haven't eaten beef in ten years and I've given up eating pork.
I'm having a problem giving up chicken and fish - I wish I could become a Vegetarian cold turkey, no pun intended.
I seem to be able to move toward being a Vegetarian only by taking baby steps - obviously a lack of will power.
My reasons have nothing to do with health, and everything to do with being an animal lover.
I consider myself healthy now, and take no meds. I'm quite sure there are many healthy meat eaters that fit into that category.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of CFrance. I think I read that she was a Vegetarian at one time.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

VPL, you've often made a point of saying that you are a healthy Vegan that follows a plant-based lifestyle. That's my only point.
I don't care how much salmon you eat or if you eat at Arbys! Go ahead, knock yourself out.

I've enjoyed hearing some of the valid points raised by Jimbo, B767drvr, and others.
Personally, I haven't eaten beef in ten years and I've given up eating pork.
I'm having a problem giving up chicken and fish - I wish I could become a Vegetarian cold turkey, no pun intended.
I seem to be able to move toward being a Vegetarian only by taking baby steps - obviously a lack of will power.
My reasons have nothing to do with health, and everything to do with being an animal lover.
I consider myself healthy now, and take no meds. I'm quite sure there are many healthy meat eaters that fit into that category.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of CFrance. I think I read that she was a Vegetarian at one time.

I agree with part of what several people have said. I don't eat things that walk on four legs, and I rarely eat things made with wheat (maybe twice a month). I don't even eat chicken more than a few times a year. But I've never been a vegan and don't have any plans to go that way. I love eggs and cheese and dairy.

I stopped eating meat because I got tired of digging it out of my teeth, and I don't care all that much for the taste anyway. I'm sorry that animals are killed for food. That's why I spoil my pets. But I don't believe in proselytizing about food. There are too many other things that need fixing in life. Human rights and that sort of thing.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

VPL, you've often made a point of saying that you are a healthy Vegan that follows a plant-based lifestyle. That's my only point.
I don't care how much salmon you eat or if you eat at Arbys! Go ahead, knock yourself out.

I've enjoyed hearing some of the valid points raised by Jimbo, B767drvr, and others.
Personally, I haven't eaten beef in ten years and I've given up eating pork.
I'm having a problem giving up chicken and fish - I wish I could become a Vegetarian cold turkey, no pun intended.
I seem to be able to move toward being a Vegetarian only by taking baby steps - obviously a lack of will power.
My reasons have nothing to do with health, and everything to do with being an animal lover.
I consider myself healthy now, and take no meds. I'm quite sure there are many healthy meat eaters that fit into that category.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of CFrance. I think I read that she was a Vegetarian at one time.

No one ever said there are no healthy meat eaters. It's just that veganism is thought to reduce the risk of acquiring degenerative diseases.

Also, a healthy diet isn't just about whether or not a person eats meat. Both vegans and meat eaters can be unhealthy by consuming lots of junk food.

It's all about reducing risk in the short term and long term too. (Don't forget the long term.)

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by CFrance

But I don't believe in proselytizing about food. There are too many other things that need fixing in life. Human rights and that sort of thing.

I'm not posting here to proselytize, only to create awareness.
ie; food for thought

I doubt the readers herein had any idea what the number of animals consumed added upto.

When we go out to eat there is never a comment as to my friends choices, we go out to eat to socialize.


.

[Loudoll]

Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken

I have eaten red meat all my life and at 70, have zero prescriptions, and all my indicators are excellent, but unlike you, I realize that anecdotes don't advance argument. You know, the sad thing about cultural stereotypes is that they are better than 80% accurate, and the one about arrogant vegans is no different.

Sadly, we attended the funeral of a good friend 3 months ago. He died from esophageal cancer. He and his wife were thin vegetarians, exercised faithfully, had bright, positive outlooks on life and didn't smoke. He felt betrayed by the hype that led him to that lifestyle and regretted his sacrifices for it.

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

the reason humans have large brains is because our distant ancestors ate cooked meat, which provided much more energy than uncooked meat - and the brain uses a lot of energy
?

Like to know how cooking meat will give it more energy than uncooked.

[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by Loudoll

Sadly, we attended the funeral of a good friend 3 months ago. He died from esophageal cancer. He and his wife were thin vegetarians, exercised faithfully, had bright, positive outlooks on life and didn't smoke. He felt betrayed by the hype that led him to that lifestyle and regretted his sacrifices for it.

Sorry to learn of your loss, but there are so many reasons that illnesses can arise - all we can do is our best to limit them, and it sounds as though he did that, but lost out on the roll of the dice.

Conversely, the media always ask those alive at 110 what they attribute for long life, and it usually includes smoking and heavy drinking, which ends up promoting use of same to those who don't understand probabilities.