[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Did you read my post? About the couple who got COVID even though they are fully vaccinated and one of them is seriously ill? There will be no true herd immunity as long as there are variants emerging. There's one variant here already and others are on the way. We might ALL get COVID eventually, vaccinated or not.

Many of the vaccinated that have bad symptoms or get hospitalized have been found to be immunocompromised. It is a VERY small number and has no significance when 97% of Doctors ARE vaccinated and advising US people to get vaccinated. Other countries are begging to get the vaccine!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Swoop

The actual number is 96% and that was based on a survey of 301 doctors…
Hardly representative of ALL US DOCTORS…

Hate to say it but I have to agree.

What was the design of the survey?? Is it statistically significant? I don't know.

However, if it was a simple "are you vaccinated?" survey, the results might be quite biased. Every doctor(medical doctors, not the pretenders or quacks) knows damn well he/she should be vaccinated. So if he/she wasn't, they might not own up to it.

Also, in my experience, you can't get 96% of doctors to agree on whether the Earth is round, much less get vaccinated.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Short answer: Maybe, and maybe not. A ton of suppositions in that post

I never claimed to be a Medical Scientist or a Doctor with a good golf swing. I am merely a person that has the time to watch and read the news and some science journals. I then try to write in my own words what I have absorbed - to the best of my ability. None of us, except maybe Blue fire remnants, is perfect. A large % of what is written on this forum is opinion. I don't think in terms of links - I do NOT have a photographic memory. I try to give an opinion that may (?) or may NOT point others away from purposeful disinformation and/or propaganda. A current Medical Scientist would, obviously, NOT be interested in my opinions on the future trajectory of the DELTA or other variants. However, it IS possible (?) that some others might be? Thank you!

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Hate to say it but I have to agree.

What was the design of the survey?? Is it statistically significant? I don't know.

However, if it was a simple "are you vaccinated?" survey, the results might be quite biased. Every doctor(medical doctors, not the pretenders or quacks) knows damn well he/she should be vaccinated. So if he/she wasn't, they might not own up to it.

Also, in my experience, you can't get 96% of doctors to agree on whether the Earth is round, much less get vaccinated.

So "doctors" are a separate category from health care workers. Because that was one of the groups identified that weren't getting vaccinated at a high rate. I'm not too surprised because many don't even want the seasonal flu vaccines. Maybe they know something we don't?

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There will be no herd immunity as long as the virus has ripe lovely non-immune hosts in which to mutate. Herd immunity is -most efficiently- achieved via vaccination.

Sadly, too many people reject science. They're fine with putting up a wall to stop immigrants (and the wall won't actually stop them) but they're not fine putting up a wall to stop the virus. Walls are only useful for people they consider undesirable.

You're wrong on all counts. The people who are "rejecting" science are not the ones who want to put up a wall to stop people from entering the country illegally. The facts are there along with the statistics but you don't want to believe them because it doesn't fit your overall world view/narrative.

Science, as it happens, is currently falling on its face. The constant shifting of opinions, contradictory information,the back-tracking, the ever-changing directives and mandates, etc. They're making it easy to distrust them, and in turn, write off the vaccines.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

So "doctors" are a separate category from health care workers. Because that was one of the groups identified that weren't getting vaccinated at a high rate. I'm not too surprised because many don't even want the seasonal flu vaccines. Maybe they know something we don't?

Methinks you may have got the wrong take home message from my post......

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

You're wrong on all counts. The people who are "rejecting" science are not the ones who want to put up a wall to stop people from entering the country illegally. The facts are there along with the statistics but you don't want to believe them because it doesn't fit your overall world view/narrative.

Science, as it happens, is currently falling on its face. The constant shifting of opinions, contradictory information,the back-tracking, the ever-changing directives and mandates, etc. They're making it easy to distrust them, and in turn, write off the vaccines.

I'll leave the replies to others----way too much low hanging fruit here

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

You're wrong on all counts. The people who are "rejecting" science are not the ones who want to put up a wall to stop people from entering the country illegally. The facts are there along with the statistics but you don't want to believe them because it doesn't fit your overall world view/narrative.

Science, as it happens, is currently falling on its face. The constant shifting of opinions, contradictory information,the back-tracking, the ever-changing directives and mandates, etc. They're making it easy to distrust them, and in turn, write off the vaccines.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I'll leave the replies to others----way too much low hanging fruit here

(Once again) I'll bite...

[Cview]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

This post would be absolutely correct, IF you just substitute the word "quacks" for "doctors"

Ivermectin was what I wormed my horses with, what kind of doctor prescribes ivermectin for Covid????

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

But, the point IS all these UNvaccinated will NOT have mild symptoms. Some of them will be tortured by the disease in a hospital and then some of these will DIE. How can that be thought of as a good thing? They are our friends and neighbors. They have occupations and skills that benefit all of us. There are also moral issues in wanting herd immunity happening from suffering versus a vaccine. Sorry, I don't understand!

Yes, sometimes people don't take the advice of their doctors and they die. It happens every day. COVID is no different. Also, you mentioned "friends and neighbors" being affected, but again, we don't have control over others' lives. You can only try and gently persuade them because anything more forceful doesn't work. People get angry as it is a personal decision.

Case in point, I have a close friend who's 80. She has a myriad of underlying conditions/health problems (double cancer survivor, half a lung, heart problems) and if she got COVID she'd be a goner. She stubbornly refuses to get the vaccine because not enough is known about it and she thinks there might be unforeseen side effects. I tried to explain that isn't a smart gamble to take at her age, and getting a vaccine is the prudent thing to do. Surprisingly, some of her friends in her age group don't want to get the vaccine either, and both her son and daughter (in their 50's) aren't vaccinated. It didn't help matters when she told her doctor she wanted to wait until more was known about the vaccines and he agreed with her (there's one of your unvaccinated doctors right there!).

Bottom line is, we got into a slight argument about it as I kept trying to convince her but in the end I had to stop or it might have ruined our friendship. You can't save people from themselves. You can try, but ultimately they are in control of their own destiny.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The history of the modern world is going to be written pre-CV inception and post-CV inception. The main question then becomes........just to what degree of BAD will the post-CV inception really be? ALREADY we have 2 Americas, not a single-minded America focused strictly on the Great Virus War (WW 2.5). The UK has a vaccination rate of 85% and is returning to "normal". The US had a better start than the UK and could and SHOULD have been at 85% in April if NOT for Evangelical-type anti-vaccine thinking and other anti-American thinking and leadership flaws.

A few statistics.........72,000 new US pediatric US cases in the last week........49 CV patients currently at our TV Land hospital............5 pediatric hospitalizations at Advent Health, Orlando......BAD is becoming "BADDER"

You keep citing these "facts" with nothing to back them up...

As of 08/02/2021, the fully vaccinated rate in the UK was 58.1%. Nowhere NEAR 85%

uk vaccination rates - Google Search

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Well, I know for a fact that people under 65, but working in hospitals locally got vaccinated in January. Also, rich privileged people at a fancy resort in Miami near the Keys of various ages got vaccinated in January. Please feel free to check the Miami newspapers about this.

If everyone eligible to get vaccinated (with NO, ZERO anti-vaxxers) had STARTED getting vaccinated in April the US would have been near zero hospitalizations by mid-July. And we could have avoided the Delta variant in the US. Then we could have started helping other parts of the world. Incidentally, Japan and Australia were handling the Virus pretty well EARLY ON before any vaccine simply because they had the willpower nationwide to do it.

I am basically saying that if the US had the national will to do it, we would have "herd immunity" by now. And I am processing why we did NOT have that unified willpower. We did have it for WW2 - remember!

Japan, who's mask compliance is at 98%, is currently experiencing its highest numbers of positive covid tests EVER...

japan covid cases - Google Search

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

97% of all US Doctors have gotten their vaccines. That IS a pretty powerful fact!

Should I also repeat myself (once again) about the low number of nurses and other hospital employees?

Oh, and did you not read that that "poll" came from a sample of only 300 doctors?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The vaccines were designed to primarily prevent hospitalization and deaths - NOT to prevent cases. so far, I would have to applaud that design criterion.

Completely false...

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Should I also repeat myself (once again) about the low number of nurses and other hospital employees?

Oh, and did you not read that that "poll" came from a sample of only 300 doctors?

I mentioned about the health care workers (nurses, etc.) not wanting to get the vaccine and a poster thought I equated that with the stats on the doctors, which was not my intention. I merely wanted to point out that nurses and other health workers were not on board with the vaccinations and perhaps that was telling in some way.