[shcisamax]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

Curious, why do you assume to be the arbiter relevance? Why is someone else's foundational belief irrelevant? At its heart this is a philosophical discussion, an ethical discussion. What is your basis for ethic? Am I to be denied a voice because my basis is not your basis?

Because using the bible to support torture is simply absurd and people do no service to a discussion when they quote the bible for self serving motives.

As for being on the floor of a cattle slaughter house, that is such a small piece of what is being discussed. And even then, it isn't quite as clean and tidy as you assert. Thankfully, Grandin Temple helped tremendously to make it a more humane final moment. Would you like to talk about horse slaughter? pigs, lamb, chickens, and yadi yadi. Do you want to talk about the months and years of what leads up to the final moments? If I knew how to post photos, not that most people could stomach to see them and would look away so they could hold on to their illusion of humane factory farming, I would. But the Professor above describes well the ugly truth and that should be enough to have people start looking into the reality if they are interested.

[rubicon]

All this talk about the slaughter of animals would make the centuries of people who hunted for their very existence cringe.

In this civilized society we have found a more humane way for harvesting our bounty for meat protein and other such sources. Its efficient, its economical and it is most importantly a reliable manner to ensure people have food on the table.

[thekeithfan]

You beef lovers (that would include me): Have you noticed beef prices through the roof and the quality really lacking? Where did all the good beef go?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by thekeithfan

You beef lovers (that would include me): Have you noticed beef prices through the roof and the quality really lacking? Where did all the good beef go?

thekeithfan: where did all the good beef go?? to the ethanol producers. Beside drought the lack of corn for feed added to reduction in herds. Pig inventory is down due to a virus. Limes are scarce vegetable prices increasing How much of all of this is manipulation???????

[elizabeth52]

I am not a Vegan. But I respect your viewpoint and found the information that you shared very interesting. Thank you, Jimbo, for a thought provoking post.

[shcisamax]

Originally Posted by elizabeth52

I am not a Vegan. But I respect your viewpoint and found the information that you shared very interesting. Thank you, Jimbo, for a thought provoking post.

I am not a vegan either. But the more I learn, the more honest I am about the choices I am making, the more I lean away from incredible untruth of humane factory farming and have begun to make changes in what I eat. For sure, when I eat now, I am now thinking about how it got to me.

[jimbo2012]

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

Now he lives in TV, never knew Santa slaughtered animals tho

Question, does Santa eat his reindeer?

Poor Rudolf............don't tell your gran kids

It is really funny I started this off with the keyword "vegan" and a slaughter house expert chimes in, you may get a warmer response on a barbecue thread


here's a great video where your beef really coming from (warning U may not order a burger again)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SYDxTDJl0Y


---

H]ow do [slaughterhouses] contribute to the spreading of pathogens or the increased food safety risks?

... At a slaughterhouse, you have big animals entering at one end, and small cuts of meat leaving at the other end. In between are hundreds of workers, mainly using handheld knives, processing the meat. So during that whole production system, there are many opportunities for the meat to be contaminated. What we're really talking about is fecal contamination of the meat from the stomach contents or the hide of the animal.

... The slaughterhouses that the United States have are pretty unique in terms of the speed of production. We have slaughterhouses that will process 300, 400 cattle an hour, which is as much as twice as many as anywhere else in the world. And it's that speed of production that can lead to food-safety problems. When workers are working very quickly, they may make mistakes. It's during the evisceration of the animal, or the removal of the hide, that manure can get on the meat. And when manure gets on some meat, and then that meat is ground up with lots of other meat, the whole lot of it can be contaminated. ...

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by rubicon

do you honestly believe one would not draw a conclusion that veganism is a quasi-religion to you?

It would depend on ones level of intellect perhaps, since you don't know me you should not draw such conclusions.

PS: it's not!

[jimbo2012]

Someone asked me earlier in a PM the following ?

Protein Content of Green Vegetables compared to Meat?

How many think it's meat?

See Dr. Fuhrman's answer here

[DianeM]

Live and let live. We all have a view and an opinion. Life is a journey where we learn new things and change our minds on what was the accepted norm.

[jimbo2012]

Does that include letting the animals live?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

It would depend on ones level of intellect perhaps, since you don't know me you should not draw such conclusions.

PS: it's not!

jimbo: The aforementioned comments are puzzling? Are you telling me that you mean what you say or you don't mean what you say? The choice of a person's words reflect their thinking which reveals who they are. By intent, tone conviction, etc it appears that you are evangelicalizing because you believe your philosophy concerning diet is superior to others.

In turn I am responding by explaining that you have your belief while I have mine and will continue to sacrifice animals on the altar of the Lord. For me its not really about one's debating a best diet its the constant bombardment
from you about the evils of eating animals.

And as to your intellectual level comment let's not confuse intellect with philosophy because people having different philosophies will never agree and its not a reflection of intellect.

So let's agree to disagree .

Personal Best Regards

[jimbo2012]

So let's agree to disagree

yes let's leave it that betwix us

[lightworker888]

i am not a vegan but do limit and carefully select the animal protein I do eat. I do my best to buy grass fed beef and non commercially raised meat from local farmers who farm humanely and I am very concerned about the GMO corn feed that is cmmercially used. And I am also concerned about the excessive use of soy in plant based "health" products.

What did occur to me in this discussion was, if we ever all went vegan, what would become of all the animals. If they could be raised and slaughtered in a "healthy" way we pprobably would all be better off. Who is to say that it isn't so much the animals as food, but more about the quality of the food from the animals that is creating the health challenges. That goes for the commercially grown produce as well, that gets sprayed and gmo'd.

It really is impossible to compare what is available commercially for us in this day as opposed to the produce and grassfed cattle grazing on plants and grains grown in vitamin rich soil in yesteryears.

Just my 2cents.

LW888

[jpharmat]

Excellent post Jimbo! I am Vegan too. I am neither pale or anemic and very healthy!
As most Vegans know, there is no such thing as humane slaughter. From start to finish factory farming is horrific to the animals involved. Do you know what happens to the male calf immediately taken from his mother? Do you know that cows are kept pregnant so that humans can drink milk? Do you know that male chicks are often ground up alive right after they hatch because male chicks are a waste product of the farming industry? Who in their right mind would put a piece of flesh in their mouth that has been pumped full of many hormones and chemicals...
Watch Forks over Knives, From Farm to Tale or Vegucated if you want to know the truth. Google slaughterhouse videos... if you dare.