[rubicon]

Originally Posted by jpharmat

Excellent post Jimbo! I am Vegan too. I am neither pale or anemic and very healthy!
As most Vegans know, there is no such thing as humane slaughter. From start to finish factory farming is horrific to the animals involved. Do you know what happens to the male calf immediately taken from his mother? Do you know that cows are kept pregnant so that humans can drink milk? Do you know that male chicks are often ground up alive right after they hatch because male chicks are a waste product of the farming industry? Who in their right mind would put a piece of flesh in their mouth that has been pumped full of many hormones and chemicals...
Watch Forks over Knives, From Farm to Tale or Vegucated if you want to know the truth. Google slaughterhouse videos... if you dare.

Hi jpharmat: do you know what happens to a male calf...Yes it becomes veal and veal becomes scaloppini, parmesan, stuffed veal. As kids we ate veal dishes three times a week until the rest of America realized how good it is and now you have to float a loan to buy a pound.


There have been many recalls on vegetables because of e-coli, etc scares

Experts disagree some say buy only grass fed beef and organic grown vegetables wile other experts state the high price difference isn't worth it.

Nature has provided a bounty and I believe in sampling as much of a variety as I can.

I too love vegetables beets included.


Bon Appetit'

[jimbo2012]

"I believe in sampling as much of a variety as I can"

Rubi, what is your BMI

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Does that include letting the animals live?

Yeah it's only fair

[Vernster]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

It wasn’t until a decade after the death of my beloved dog that I woke up. I first awoke to find myself hospitalized, after having eaten what turned out to be my very last piece of meat – a hamburger that had been contaminated with the foodborne bacteria, campylobacter. And then I awoke to the truth. I awoke to the truth about what is perhaps the most entrenched and brutal industry in human history, an industry that permeates virtually every aspect of human and nonhuman existence and whose very survival depends on denial.

The truth is that nonhuman animals are intelligent, sentient beings. Pigs, for instance, are as intelligent as three-year-old humans; and scientists have demonstrated that fish and certain crustaceans have pain receptors, such that some food manufacturers no longer sell live lobsters and crabs on the grounds that boiling them alive is inhumane.

The truth is that approximately 95% of the meat, eggs, and dairy that make it to our plates comes from animals who lived and died in abject misery. (And the other 5%, from so-called organic or humane farms is, I assure you, far from cruelty-free.) For instance, baby animals are routinely castrated and have their horns and beaks cut off without any painkiller whatsoever. They are born and raised in crowded, filthy, dark environments where their existence is one of torment and terror. The females may be hooked up to so-called rape racks, where they are forcibly impregnated, over and over, only to have their offspring taken from them just hours after birth. (There are few sounds as haunting as the wailing of a cow on a dairy farm, as her baby is carried off.). And when it comes time for slaughter, these beings are shackled by their ankles, dragged along a conveyor belt, sliced open, and plunged into boiling water, often while fully conscious.

The truth is that, according to the United Nations, animal agriculture is one of the most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems facing the world today. Consider, for instance, the fact that greenhouse gas emissions caused by so-called livestock exceed that caused by all cars, trucks, ships, buses, and airplanes combined.

The truth is that there is overwhelming evidence linking the consumption of animal products with some of the most prevalent and debilitating diseases in the western world, including cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and obesity.

The truth is that those on the front lines of killing – the meatpackers and slaughterhouse workers – are economically and physically exploited and are often traumatized by an industry whose business is violence. Human Rights Watch states that the working conditions of these individuals are so appalling they violate basic human rights; and not surprisingly, such violence begets violence. For instance, one worker stated (and I apologize in advance for the brief profanity):

“One time I took my knife…and I sliced off the end of a hog’s nose, just like a piece of bologna. The hog went crazy for a few seconds. Then it just sat there looking kind of stupid. So I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into its nose. Now that hog really went nuts, brushing its nose all over the place. I still had a bunch of salt left…and I stuck the salt right up the hog’s ass. The poor hog didn’t know whether to **** or go blind.”1

The truth is that, globally, 124,000 farmed animals are slaughtered…not every day, or even every hour….but every, single, minute. And so I would like to take a moment of silence, to honor the victims on whose behalf I stand here today, and to commemorate the 124,000 of them who will be killed during the next sixty seconds.

(Sixty seconds of silence)

Thank you.

And the truth was that an entire society of rational, caring people – just like myself – had somehow checked their hearts and minds at the door to enable a global atrocity that has caused more bloodshed than all wars, genocides, famines, and natural disasters combined, in what could only be called a collective madness.

We tearfully bury the bodies of deceased dogs, yet we contentedly consume the bodies of dead pigs. We stop in our tracks to return a fallen bird to her nest, while our chicken nuggets await us back home. We laugh beside our children as they reach toward the calf in the petting zoo, though we feed them the very milk that was taken from this baby, milk that was taken along with his mother. We would call it abuse if a happy, healthy golden retriever were slaughtered just because people liked the way her thighs taste, and yet, when the very same thing is done to individuals of other species we call it humane. We don snorkels and masks and fins to stare in awe at the sundry creatures of the sea, balm to our busy minds, yet we may also soothe ourselves by tricking these same beings into impaling themselves to death on the ends of our sharpened hooks. And the methods of mass destruction….How many times had I heedlessly driven past the squat, elongated factories – windowless sheds in remote locations in which hundreds of thousands of individuals were caged and confined, castrated and cauterized and cut open – factories that bore a haunting resemblance to other architectures of the darker chapters of our history? And how many times had I cheerfully hummed to my radio as truckloads of terrified animals passed me on their way to slaughter, the whites of their eyes flashing from behind dark little slats?

Something was horribly wrong.

How on earth had such a glaring truth been so fully eclipsed by denial?

OMG !! I could hardly read the whole post without feeling ill. Feel like I should become a vegetarian.

[shcisamax]

Then for sure you got the point. It is upsetting but is a worthwhile consideration.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Neal2tire

Nelson Mandela? Food?
After a life of eating green and right and working as a chef
in the world of veggies and etc etc etc
had a heart attack at age 56
Now I eat meat and leafy greens and all vegetables. Lots of salmon and fish
and meat meat meat. BP and all blood work SHOCKED my Dr.
Shocked me too. Lost about 40lbs all by eating like people have for million of years.
I come from a family with vege heads and very educated food 'experts' all ill and anemic. I've never looked this good or felt better.
There is no connection between eating fat and heart or cancer illnesses.
Oh yes.. and I've increased my alcohol consumption from one drink a day to three.

I would avoid toxic sick relationships and family who like to screw with your head.
THAT is a road to health.
Just my two cents.
Neal G

The above anecdote is confusing at best but here's what I think it means. You can eat green but if you have stress from, "toxic sick relationships and family who like to screw with your head," you can still get a heart attack because eating green doesn't cancel out toxic stress. On the other hand, if you learn to control the stress and eat a healthy diet which includes some meat, you can do well. No one ever said that you will suddenly drop dead from eating meat. That's not how it works; it's about averages.

We can all come up with anecdotes: Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy's, died at age 69. He often appeared in his own TV ads and looked healthy. He apparently believed in his own hamburger product and ate plenty of them as he liked to frequently show up at new Wendy's openings. Looking healthy isn't everything, it's all about what's going on below the surface.

What really counts is the longevity records achieved by large groups of people. When the book, "The Okinawa Program", came out many years ago, Okinawans held the undisputed record for health and longevity. And, at that time, only a very small percentage of their diet consisted of animal protein. It was a very small fraction compared to the American diet. (I can get those percentages if you like.)

Now there are the Seventh Day Adventists. They are vegans and vegetarians and are the new record-holders for health and longevity. In a recent study, it has been learned that they have an average lifespan that is 10 years longer than the average American. That doesn't come from an anecdote, that comes from a study of 30,000 Seventh Day Adventists.

[Villages PL]

I've heard the statement many times that veganism, vegetarianism, or environmentalism, is like a religion. And it always makes me wonder: if the person who says it thinks that religion is good, isn't it logical to think that anything like it would also be good?

The statement that, "it's like a religion", reminds me of someone who has been known to say that, from time-to-time, on the radio. The person I'm thinking of lives a life that is consumed by politics to the point where politics is like a religion to him. (People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.)

Many things in life can be like a religion, even economics. The chairman of the Federal Reserve Board is like the "Pope" of economics and the rest of the board members are like Archbishops. They have their occasional meetings to set monetary policy etc., and we are mere mortals who worship at their feet.

[jpharmat]

I don't know if Veganism is a religion, but it is surely a lifestyle.

[shcisamax]

I think of it as a life choice.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

"I believe in sampling as much of a variety as I can"

Rubi, what is your BMI

Hi jimbo: Never saw this post until now (6/16/@2:22PM) Not to skirt your question but I do not know. I can tell you I am 5'11"weigh 215 have a flat stomach work out three or four times a week have outstanding heart related stats. I am a high consumer of protein and low on sugar. I don't smoke drink in moderation and get the required rest one needs.

BMI is faulty because it doesn't distinguish between measuring what is muscle or what is fat.

You have heard me talk about moderation in all things. As for the vegan diet. To me it is like using 100% ethanol in a car resulting in not maximizing energy efficiency and causing damage to your engine to boot.

Experts are rethinking saturated fats for everyone and essentially say meat protein is good for those over 65. the reason is the body's decreased absorption rate as we age.

Personal Best Regards: