[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

I didn't post the link of real-life experiences as a reply to your request for scientific studies, nor was it to prove that any home remedies like copper bracelets work!

I posted it because it is interesting to hear the perspectives of actual people who've lived it and described other likely factors that play a part in the whole picture......but nobody really knows for sure.

To me, if veganism definitively prevented breast cancer then all the oncologists, surgeons, cancer researchers, nurses, etc. would be doing it, because they or their wives/mothers/daughters/sisters get as much of it as anyone else.

Contrary to what some "wannabe doctors" think, all these medical clinicians and researchers are not "out to hide" simple, natural, inexpensive remedies against cancer because they just want to make money from current, standard treatment regimens. They have a vested interest in prevention and cure because just like everyone else, the incidence is 1 of every 8 women gets breast cancer, which translates to affecting almost every family over 2-3 generations.

Well said. I so agree.

I see RED when someone says the TRADITIONAL medical community is trying to hide a cure in order for them to make money. That is like saying all plumbers will lie to you or all ministers are pedophiles...no it's worse!!!

Believe me, when I had cancer, so did my oncologists wife. His pain was as great as that I saw on my dear husbands face. It is as bad to watch someone you love have it as it is to have it yourself. Maybe worse.

A cure for breast cancer, any cancer, is not for just THEM (WHOEVER THEY ARE) it is for US. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. Doctors very much included. No one on this earth is unaffected.

[chalcedony]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Some vegetarians eat eggs: They are called ovo-vegetarian.

Some eat dairy but exclude eggs: They are called Lacto-vegetarians.

Some eat dairy and eggs and are called lacto-ovo vegetarians.

It's a lot different than being vegan. Vegans, a type of vegetarian, don't eat any animal products at all.

I agree. Vegans do not eat meat at all and I think that is unhealthy. Vegans are missing important sources for HDL "good" cholesterol that help reduce the amount of LDL "bad" cholesterol in the body. They may have lower risk for cancer but they can be at greater risk also for heart diseases and other disorders. We need cholesterol in our body for our cells to function properly. Balance is the key to quality life not perfection.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

I didn't post the link of real-life experiences as a reply to your request for scientific studies, nor was it to prove that any home remedies like copper bracelets work!

I posted it because it is interesting to hear the perspectives of actual people who've lived it and described other likely factors that play a part in the whole picture......but nobody really knows for sure.

To me, if veganism definitively prevented breast cancer then all the oncologists, surgeons, cancer researchers, nurses, etc. would be doing it, because they or their wives/mothers/daughters/sisters get as much of it as anyone else.

Contrary to what some "wannabe doctors" think, all these medical clinicians and researchers are not "out to hide" simple, natural, inexpensive remedies against cancer because they just want to make money from current, standard treatment regimens. They have a vested interest in prevention and cure because just like everyone else, the incidence is 1 of every 8 women gets breast cancer, which translates to affecting almost every family over 2-3 generations.

I agree. I really object to painting all healthcare providers that do not subscribe to a narrow view of healthy nutrition as in it for the money. I spent almost 30 years in a large medical group which emphasized preventive care. Care teams involved nutritionists as well as physicians, and simple, easy to follow, dietary and lifestyle changes were routinely discussed. Our success was dependent on keeping our members as healthy as possible, whether from traditional pharmaceutical or surgical intervention, or from lifestyle modifications and education.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Not for us to eat, nor are our teeth.

Our anatomy and physiology are those of natural plant-eaters. Human canine teeth are small and blunt, and we have flat molars for grinding up plant fibers. Look at a dog's or a cat's teeth and you'll see something quite different: long, pointed canine teeth for catching prey and tearing the hide and sharp-edged teeth in the back for shearing off chunks of flesh. Humans have hands that are useful for gathering vegetables and fruits but aren't that good for killing and ripping skin and flesh. Natural carnivores (like cats) and omnivores (like bears) have claws that they use to grasp and tear at their prey.

Humans are not designed to easily digest meat. Natural meat-eaters swallow their meat raw after no or minimal chewing, relying on their highly acidic stomach juices to break down the meat and kill the bacteria that cause food poisoning. We chew our food thoroughly, and we have a carbohydrate-digesting enzyme in our saliva to start the digestive process, just as other herbivores do. Without the stomach acidity that carnivores and omnivores have, we are forced to cook our meat to avoid the risk of food poisoning. Like all herbivores, we have a long intestinal tract, which is necessary for the proper digestion of the cellulose in plants. Carnivores and omnivores have shorter intestines, which are designed to quickly digest meat before it begins to rot.

Mrs. Jimbo

Sorry, but I don't truly understand some of what you're trying to convey. Humans are not herbivores, we do not have the same anatomy as well known plant eating animals. Ruminant animals, plant eating animals, have a 4 chambered stomach to digest the grasses they eat. Humans are monogastrics, simple stomach creatures. There is more to how plant products are digested, but not necessarily a fun read for those not interested in this segment of zoology.

We have different types of teeth, designed for biting, tearing, grinding....humans are omnivores and our anatomy is perfectly designed to eat various types of food with little problems.

Please cite from an accepted, reputable scientific source that homo sapiens are herbivores and not omnivores.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

I agree. Vegans do not eat meat at all and I think that is unhealthy. Vegans are missing important sources for HDL "good" cholesterol that help reduce the amount of LDL "bad" cholesterol in the body. They may have lower risk for cancer but they can be at greater risk also for heart diseases and other disorders. We need cholesterol in our body for our cells to function properly.

IMO and my doctors I'm healthy and take no meds.

The average vegan cholesterol is 135-145, your body produces it also.

If anything the primary benefit is preventing heart ailments.

Ask Bill Clinton, has he been back for another stint or bypass?

See the book Your last heart attack or the DVD Forks over Knives, you will get a better understanding heart disease and diet.

.

[ilovetv]

From the National Cancer Institute at the National Institutes of Health:

Breast Cancer Prevention (By clicking each factor below on the NIH web page linked, detailed information is shown on that factor)

Key Points for This Section
Avoiding risk factors and increasing protective factors may help prevent cancer.

The following risk factors may increase the risk of breast cancer:
Estrogen (endogenous)
Hormone replacement therapy/Hormone therapy
Exposure to Radiation
Obesity
Alcohol
Inherited Risk

The following protective factors may decrease the risk of breast cancer:
Exercise
Estrogen (decreased exposure)
Selective estrogen receptor modulators
Aromatase inhibitors
Prophylactic mastectomy
Prophylactic oophorectomy
Fenretinide

The following have been proven not to be risk factors for breast cancer or their effects on breast cancer risk are not known:
Abortion
Oral Contraceptives
Environment
Diet
Active and passive cigarette smoking
Statins

Cancer prevention clinical trials are used to study ways to prevent cancer.
New ways to prevent breast cancer are being studied in clinical trials.

Breast Cancer Prevention (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

There are a variety of real-life experiences posted here at this link, by breast cancer patients.....

Breast Cancer Topic: were you vegan/vegetarian/organic before you diagnosis?

I'm not familiar with the above website so I had some trouble navigating but when I clicked on "Organic Living" I found this: "Welcome! Breastcancer.org and Stonyfield Farm are excited to bring you this Organic Living Section."

In my opinion, once you let marketers of fast food and/or animal products into a website, objectivity goes out the window.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Strictly being vagan leads to gastro problems and requires careful planning to be sure you are getting the proper nutrients.

I know someone who turned to vegetarianism because she can't digest meat and she's not that old (not retired yet). Many older people have the same problem because stomach acid tends to decrease with age. But I assume you won't be telling everyone to stop eating meat because of this. And as far as careful planning goes, the same holds true for meat eaters. Many people, as they age, (even meat eaters) are deficient in vitamin D3, B12, fiber, and other important nutrients.

Once again the Greeks had it right moderation in all things.

It was good advice considering they didn't have a lot of knowledge about nutrition. And the ancient Greeks didn't have fast food to contend with.

I'll bet these same doctors shift their advice a few years down the road.

And what might that advice be? Vegetables are bad for you?

A few years ago coffee was on the hit list. today it offers 11 health benefits.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

But the advice is not always from the same researchers. The benefits come from studies that are paid for by the coffee industry. And the research results that indicate harm come from studies paid for by the tea industry.

The reason coffee is recommended is because the standard American diet is deficient in healthy whole foods like fruits and vegetables. Coffee is good because it at least provides some antioxidants to help make up for this deficiency.

[graciegirl]

Thank Goodness coffee is o.k. because this forum could make me start drinking hard liquor again.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Thank Goodness coffee is o.k. because this forum could make me start drinking hard liquor again.

Before we went on this diet or lifestyle, I asked Dr. Esseltyn a simple question is it ok to drink wine, beer or coffee.

He said no problem because you'll be eating so good....it works for us.

[chalcedony]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

IMO and my doctors I'm healthy and take no meds.

The average vegan cholesterol is 135-145, your body produces it also.

If anything the primary benefit is preventing heart ailments.

Ask Bill Clinton, has he been back for another stint or bypass?

See the book Your last heart attack or the DVD Forks over Knives, you will get a better understanding heart disease and diet.

.

That's good that you are healthy and you take no meds. Thank you for the references too.

I think that there is strong evidence that omega-3 fatty acids which come from mostly animal sources are useful in the prevention and treatment of heart disease. In the case of most vegans (referring to those who eat plant foods and REJECT ALL animal products) , there is a concern that there can be deficiency in vitamin B12 and omega-3 fatty acids which are found mostly in fish sources.
Good sources of omega-3 fatty acids are some fatty
fish, such as salmon, tuna, and mackerel. Although there are also some plant sources like walnuts and soybeans.
In some studies, people who ate fish had a reduced death rate from heart disease.

I think that for people to be healthy, they do not need to completely reject animal food sources.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

, there is a concern that there can be deficiency in vitamin B12 and omega-3 fatty acids which are found mostly in fish sources.
Good sources of omega-3 fatty acids are some fatty
fish, such as salmon, tuna, and mackerel.

Wild caught salmon is the safest form - chemical wise.

B-12 is monitored via blood test twice a year, levels R normal, we do take a supplement.

An interesting point we read on omega in fish, where do they get it from?
Plant matter in the water algae, kelp etc.

So a plant based diet negates the need to supplement.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Thank Goodness coffee is o.k. because this forum could make me start drinking hard liquor again.

My previous post was rushed at the end and I believe I gave the wrong impression about my stand on coffee. As you might imagine, lots of foods have both good and bad features and it mostly applies to processed foods. So for me to say that coffee is good because it at least has some antioxidants, is not the whole story. I didn't have the time to explain but now I do and it won't take long.

The problem with coffee: It's not a good replacement for other antioxidant-containing whole foods because it doesn't contain fiber and other important nutrients. Also, the worst part, in my opinion, is that it's highly acidic. And, more often than not, acidic coffee usually follows a highly acidic meal of animal protein and processed starches etc.. Where's the balance?

All I ever drink is water and sometimes I squeeze some fresh lemon juice into the water to make it more enjoyable and alkaline.

Being healthy is fun!

P.S. Most other drinks, other than water, are acidic as well.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

Very interesting, but besides the statements made by the people you mentioned, is there a study in a reputable journal that I can read that shows that vegetarians get less breast cancer than non-vegetarians?

Journal articles, for the average person, are difficult to get hold of. I tryed once by calling libraries. I was told they couldn't get them and that I would have to find a medical library. But even then I couldn't get access to any journals unless I had some kind of permission from a doctor.

That might be the reason why some doctors, like T. Colin Campbell, write books. The average person can't get the journal articles and the author/researcher can explain everything in plain language to make it easier. In that case I would advise reading "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. Then, if it's of any help to you, you will see a long long listing of journal articles at the end of the book.

[Villages PL]

There was a long term (25yr.) population study of Okinawans. The book that describes it came out in 2001. "The Okinawa Program" It's not outdated, as some might think, because it details and compares lifestyles. How often can they do a new 25yr. study? It's a snapshot in time.

Americans eat a lot more animal protein as follows: (Percentages are by weight)

-----------------------Okinawans------------------Americans

Meat/poultry/eggs---------3%-------------------------29%

Fish-----------------------11%------------------------<1%

Dairy----------------------<2%-------------------------23%

Total-----------------------16%------------------------53%

Yearly breast cancer deaths per 100,000 people:

-------------------------Okinawans------------------Americans

-----------------------------6---------------------------33


Okinawans eat more vegetables: 34% vs 16% And even though Okinawans eat very little dairy they have 50% less risk for hip fracture than Americans.