[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

[/COLOR]

Why not. Some people take medicine to remain healthy.

First of all, I need to correct the statement I made: The average 75 year old takes 3 to 4 medications per day, and 5 or more is not uncommon.

Your question may be difficult to explain, but I'll give it a try. I don't disagree with what you have said but I think it depends on the individual. Don't forget, I was not talking about you, I was talking in terms of the average 65 year old and the average 75 year old.

People tend to take more and more medications as they get older and I think it's generally known that ALL medications have side effects. Then you have to wonder why this is happening. I mean, why all the medications?

Usually, but not always, the first medication is for high blood pressure. And it has been noticed that people tend to gain weight as they get older, usually at the rate of about 1 lb. per year. Over several decades it can really add up. And this is generally the reason why blood pressure rises with age, although there may be other contributing factors. So, the doctor says, "Mr. Smith, you have high blood pressure and I recommend that you take this medication." Yes, at that point it's better to take the medication to "stay healthy" than to not take it. But the choice I prefer is to see the potential for problems in advance and either not gain the weight in the first place or go on a diet and lose the weight.

The same often (but not always) happens with cholesterol. As a person's weight goes up their cholesterol often follows along. So they will need to take a cholesterol drug.

The same goes for artery disease: As a person gains weight they produce more estrogen and inflammation. Arterial inflammation can cause heart disease.

Inflammation in turn can cause arthritis so you might be put on a anti-inflammatory drug and/or a pain medication.

Most degenerative diseases are brought about by poor lifestyle choices. Once you have gone down that road, you may not be able to turn back. That being the case, your best bet may be to take your medications. It's just sad that it had to get to that point.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I think it can be documented if you look at large population studies like the one in Okinawa or Adventists in the U.S..

Were these studies done recently? How large was the segment of population measured? I have heard of the Okinawa study over the years, of course. It is often referred to, but I don't know the details.

[JP]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

First, I agree that there are more cases diagnosed today, but the reason is probably better diagnostic measures and heightened awareness. To say that it is because there are monies available, and everyone is a victim, is cynical at best, and bigoted at worst IMHO. Perhaps I misunderstood your implication, and if so, I apologize.

I believe this thread was about nitrites and msg and not about attacking other people. I stand by my opinion.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by JP

I think there are more cases of autism, etc being diagnosed because people are more aware of it and seek these diagnosis's because there are monies available for "special education" and special treatment. I don't think you can prove there are more cases of autism when you are comparing to our past society where everyone new 'Jimmy' was a little 'off' but did nothing about it. It's a societal trend that everyone is a victim.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

First, I agree that there are more cases diagnosed today, but the reason is probably better diagnostic measures and heightened awareness. To say that it is because there are monies available, and everyone is a victim, is cynical at best, and bigoted at worst IMHO. Perhaps I misunderstood your implication, and if so, I apologize.

Originally Posted by JP

I believe this thread was about nitrites and msg and not about attacking other people. I stand by my opinion.

Apparently I didn't misunderstand your implication.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Were these studies done recently? How large was the segment of population measured? I have heard of the Okinawa study over the years, of course. It is often referred to, but I don't know the details.

Barefoot, it has been said that Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity when an apple fell on his head. As it turns out, that was just a myth. But if it were true, would you want to know if it was recent? Gravity is gravity regardless of when it was discovered. I'm just pulling your leg, (sort of).

Your question is about the Okinawa study? I'm not sure as to the absolute number of people in the study. But I think I remember reading that they interviewed and examined over 600 centenarians. If that's true, that would make it the largest study of centenarians ever. More information can be found in the book, "The Okinawa Program".

Here are my questions for anyone who might know: How many people were in the study that calls for "everything in moderation"? Was it a recent study, and what was the result for health and longevity?

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Your question is about the Okinawa study? I'm not sure as to the absolute number of people in the study. But I think I remember reading that they interviewed and examined over 600 centenarians.

Thanks, I thought it was either 600 or 800 people. When was the study done?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Thanks, I thought it was either 600 or 800 people. When was the study done?

Search, "The Okinawa Centenarian Study", and you will find some basic information. It was a 25 year study that began in 1975.

I guess the most surprising thing is that there were so many centenarians who were in good health and still working their gardens etc.. Many of them never had any physical ailments.

It was proved NOT to be genetic. Second generation Japanese-Americans have the same rates of degenerative diseases as all other Americans.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Search, "The Okinawa Centenarian Study", and you will find some basic information. It was a 25 year study that began in 1975.

I guess the most surprising thing is that there were so many centenarians who were in good health and still working their gardens etc.. Many of them never had any physical ailments.

It was proved NOT to be genetic. Second generation Japanese-Americans have the same rates of degenerative diseases as all other Americans.

http://www.okinawa-diet.com/okinawa_...d_pyramid.html

I don't think you eat fish or eggs, do you VlllagesPl? And can you give us a link to the study that shows that Japanese Americans don't enjoy the same longevity?

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

For me, I enjoy doing the research to find the answers to questions. I learn along the way so many other things that I did not know.

I usually only ask for links when I can not find the answers.

Don't know what I would do without Google and other search engines. They have opened many a door that I did not know was there.

Just my feelings.

[graciegirl]

Can you tell me where you got the information that Japanese Americans are not as healthy as their folks in Okinawa? Also VillagesPl how do you back up the statement that it was proved to NOT be genetic that the people in the Okinawa study lived longer.

As you can easily see, I think that there is more to the genetics of the Okinawans long life than you do.

[graciegirl]

[

Fairly recent information on fathers being older as a possible cause for Autism.


Older Dads Linked to Kids' Genetic Risk for Autism and Schizophrenia | TIME.com

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Okinawa Diet Food Pyramid

I'm not sure if that food pyramid is accurate or not because it doesn't say who sponsored the link. I'm not saying it isn't accurate, I'm just saying it's strange that no one is claiming responsibility for posting it on the internet. Why would someone spend money to post it anonymously?

I don't think you eat fish or eggs, do you VlllagesPl? And can you give us a link to the study that shows that Japanese Americans don't enjoy the same longevity?

The fish they eat is locally caught fresh fish and they eat it in small portions. The eggs they eat are from their own free roaming chickens(no pesticides, herbacides, hormones or anti-biotics). And these are also eaten in small quantity. Personally, I think it may be acceptable for some people to have one serving of fish per week (not fried) and 3 to 4 soft-boiled (or poached) omega-3 eggs per week. A lot depends on the individual, health status, family history and overall diet.

Perhaps a link can be found by using the information that the authors put in the reference section: Curb, J.D., and K. Kodama. 1996. The Ni-Hon-San Study. J Epidemiol 6(4Suppl.):S197-201.

[senior citizen]

Okinawa bacteria’ toxic legacy crosses continents, spans generations



by Jon Mitchell

June 4, 2013 in THE JAPAN TIMES......
Tu Du Hospital in Ho Chi Minh City houses one of Vietnam’s busiest maternity clinics, but hidden in a quiet corner, far from the wards of proud new mothers, is a room stacked floor to ceiling with every parent’s nightmare. In dozens of glass jars lie the bodies of deformed babies preserved in formaldehyde — some have no heads, others have two, several are so scrambled that their faces jut from their stomachs and their arms are where their legs should be.

The doctor who delivered many of these children was Nguyen Thi Ngoc Phuong. Forty-five years ago she was a young intern at Tu Du Hospital when the city was known as Saigon, capital of war-torn South Vietnam.

“In 1966 or 1967 I started noticing an unprecedented increase in the number of birth defects at the hospital. There were too many deformed babies to count. They were born in areas sprayed with defoliants by the U.S. military,” she told The Japan Times.
During the Vietnam War, the Pentagon drenched South Vietnam with 76 million liters of herbicides — including Agents Blue, White and Orange — in a bid to destroy its enemies’ crops and jungle hiding places. The U.S. government assured Vietnamese people and their own troops that these “rainbow herbicides” were perfectly harmless to human health. But it was lying.

Agent Blue, the Pentagon’s preferred chemical for killing rice crops, included a poisonous compound of arsenic. Among the ingredients of Agent White were the carcinogens hexachlorobenzene and a cocktail of nitrosamines. Agent Orange, the best known and most commonly used herbicide, contained dioxin. Categorized as one of the deadliest poisons on the planet, dioxin has a lethal dose measured in the millionths of grams; it is also teratogenic, meaning it can damage the growth of the fetus.

Dr. Phuong was one of the first doctors to link South Vietnam’s soaring number of birth defects to the U.S. military’s defoliation campaign. But even when the herbicide flights ended in 1971, the health problems continued to grow.
“For example, those who were directly sprayed by Agent Orange passed the dioxin to their children in their breast milk. Then the problems were passed from the second to the third generation through damage to the cells and the DNA,” Phuong explained.
These second- and third-generation victims of Agent Orange suffer from illnesses ranging from cancers and diabetes to autoimmune disorders. Maj. Gen. Tran Ngoc Tho, chairman of the Ho Chin Minh City branch of the Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin, explained that 3 million people are currently suffering from the effects of herbicides in Vietnam — and the numbers are rising every year.

However, according to Tho, when these birth problems first began to emerge in the late-1960s, the government of South Vietnam had a special name for the source of this scourge.

“They called it ‘Okinawa bacteria.’ During the war, Okinawa had many U.S. Air Force bases, and American planes came from there to bomb South Vietnam. There were stories that the planes that used to spray these chemicals came from Okinawa, too.”

From 1945 to 1972, Okinawa was under U.S. jurisdiction, and during the Vietnam War the island served as the Pentagon’s forward staging post for the conflict. Used to train troops, store supplies and ship them to the war zone, Okinawa also hosted the more clandestine side of the American war machine, including at one point as many as 1,200 nuclear warheads, as well as a massive arsenal of nerve and mustard gas.

Given the presence of these weapons of mass destruction, the storage of rainbow herbicides on Okinawa should come as no surprise. Dozens of U.S. veterans and Okinawa base workers claim these substances were warehoused on the island and sprayed around the bases’ fences to keep back the vegetation, a practice also common in South Vietnam at the time. Although the Pentagon denies such allegations, many of these former service members have illnesses consistent with dioxin exposure. Moreover, their children — and grandchildren — are sick, too.

One of these veterans is Rick Dewess. A former U.S. marine stationed on Okinawa between 1969 and 1970, he currently suffers from multiple illnesses — including diabetes, ischemic heart disease and respiratory problems — that he blames on dioxin poisoning. He believes his exposure has also damaged the health of his children.
“Our first child was a miscarriage. Then our next try, a son, had a kidney removed and needed another two surgeries by the time he was 5 years old. My second son had problems with his spine and my daughter has thyroid issues,” Dewess told The Japan Times.

Dewess believes his exposure to dioxin occurred at Naha Military Port, where he was assigned to off-load equipment damaged during combat in Vietnam. He worries that this work put him in contact with dioxin-contaminated soil. Such fears were supported by a 2008 ruling from the Department of Veterans Affairs — the federal agency responsible for awarding compensation to sick service members — which recognized that another former G.I. on Okinawa had been exposed to rainbow herbicides while handling contaminated gear in the same circumstances.

A second marine veteran alleging dioxin exposure — and consequent damage to her children’s health — was Caethe Goetz. Featured in The Japan Times in August 2011, Goetz had developed multiple myeloma — a rare form of cancer usually found in men in their sixties and seventies — when she was 49 years old. She passed away in November 2012 at the age of 58.

During her service on Okinawa, Goetz was pregnant and often used to take walks near the perimeter fence of Camp Foster. She recalled walking through foliage that had recently been treated with herbicides and, on one occasion, even being sprayed in the face. “I didn’t think much of it at the time — I just wiped the liquid away,” she said in an interview shortly before her death.

As with the other veterans claiming dioxin exposure on Okinawa, the Pentagon denied that the substance Goetz was exposed to was one of the rainbow herbicides. But in a recent interview, marine Sgt. David Robinson, a member of one of Camp Foster’s maintenance crews, seemed to confirm Goetz’s suspicions. “I sprayed the base perimeter. When filling up my fogger [a handheld spray machine], a barrel with an orange stripe was in the stand. I asked the sergeant in charge what it was, and he said, ‘Agent Orange.’ ”

Antonia, the child Goetz was carrying on Okinawa, was born with a number of problems.

“I have deformed knee caps and then, at the age of 32, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. The only family history of this illness is my grandfather, who was diagnosed in his sixties,” Antonia told The Japan Times.

Goetz’s second daughter, Catherine, also shows signs of her mother’s suspected dioxin exposure; she suffers from recurring infections, chronic fatigue syndrome, reproductive problems and a fused pelvis.

Antonia explained that these problems are now becoming apparent in the third generation of the Goetz family. Her oldest daughter has a defect with her eyes and was diagnosed with cataracts at the age of 10. Her young son suffers from developmental delays and a congenital problem with an artery in his neck.

Other U.S. veterans who believe they came into contact with rainbow herbicides on Okinawa also have children with similar diseases. Kris Roberts — a New Hampshire state representative who claims he unearthed a large cache of Agent Orange on Futenma air station in 1981 — has a daughter who suffers from health problems he suspects were caused by his exposure to dioxin on Okinawa.

Likewise, Joe Sipala — a former air force sergeant now leading veterans’ demands for an independent inquiry into Agent Orange on Okinawa — has also witnessed the sufferings of his children. While serving at Awase Transmitter Site in 1970, Sipala was tasked with spraying Agent Orange around the installation to kill weeds. As a result of this work, Sipala soon fell sick. His first child died in the womb, so misshapen that the presiding doctor told him he was lucky the baby hadn’t survived. His two surviving children were both born with birth defects — including a daughter whose deformed feet required multiple operations.

Even though the Pentagon kept information about the toxicity of these chemicals hidden, Sipala and many of his fellow veterans feel responsible for their children’s illnesses.

“It makes me feel guilty. At the time we didn’t know the dangers of spraying these herbicides, but it was my damaged DNA that caused my children’s issues,” Sipala said in a recent interview.

According to Heather Bowser, co-founder of Children of Vietnam Veterans’ Health Alliance, such feelings are common among former service members who were unwittingly exposed to poisonous herbicides during the 1960s and ’70s. “I struggled my whole young life watching my father carry the guilt believing he had caused my birth defects,” said Bowser, who was born two months premature and missing her right leg below the knee and several fingers — problems her father attributed to his exposure to Agent Orange during the Vietnam War.

Bowser said that the scale of the second-generation problems in the U.S. is appalling.
“A 1986 report stated that among 200,000 veterans surveyed, 56,000 of their children had birth defects. But we have no idea how many of them are truly affected, because we have never been offered an open dialogue by the U.S. government,” she said.

Despite overwhelming scientific evidence linking dioxin exposure to birth defects, Washington has been reluctant to support America’s second-generation victims. For example, while offering limited help to the children of female veterans who served in South Vietnam born with defects such as cleft palate, heart disease and clubfoot, it refuses to link their illnesses to Agent Orange; instead, it states that “these diseases are not tied to herbicides, including Agent Orange, or dioxin exposure, but rather to the birth mother’s service in Vietnam.” It is as though the country itself were somehow responsible for children’s birth defects, not the 76 million liters of toxic chemicals sprayed there.

As for the sickened children of male veterans, the U.S. government only recognizes one illness related to Agent Orange: spina bifida.

However, when it comes to Okinawa, the Pentagon’s blanket denials that Agent Orange was ever on the island prevents even this limited assistance reaching the sickened children of U.S. veterans such as Dewess and Sipala.
Goetz’s daughter Catherine believes the motivation for the Pentagon’s denials is simple: money.

“If the U.S. government admitted Agent Orange exposure on Okinawa, it would open a floodgate of claims for many generations to come. Seeing how my mother was treated by her country, I feel the government has dishonored all who served — it should be looking out for the people who defend our nation.”

Back in the country that blamed the birth defects maiming its newborns on “Okinawa bacteria,” Maj. Gen. Tho shares Catherine’s anger with Washington. Since the Vietnam War ended in 1975, the U.S. government has repeatedly denied assistance to Vietnamese people suffering from dioxin exposure. As recently as 2003, the U.S. Embassy in Vietnam accused the Hanoi government of waging a “two-decade-long propaganda campaign” over military herbicides; the following year, the ambassador alleged Vietnamese claims of health damage were based upon “fake science.” Even in 2012, when Washington announced it would clean up its former Agent Orange storage site in Da Nang, it refused to acknowledge any human health problems and instead labeled the project as simply “environmental remediation.”

[Villages PL]

Senior Citizen: Does it matter what they ate in Okinawa?

The Okinawa Centenarian study lasted from 1975 to 2000. So the centenarians they studied, and many of their offspring, would have lived through the time period of the Vietnam war. And yet they were still judged to be the healthiest and longest lived people in the world. Obviously, Agent Orange could not have been an issue beyond the military bases.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The Okinawa Centenarian study lasted from 1975 to 2000. So the centenarians they studied, and many of their offspring, would have lived through the time period of the Vietnam war. And yet they were still judged to be the healthiest and longest lived people in the world. Obviously, Agent Orange could not have been an issue beyond the military bases.

Just a refresher article I found.......with regard to the diet itself.
Seems mostly fat free. They are allowed some red meat I noticed.....

We used to have a great Japanese restaurant in our town...and as I recall , the portions were always mini sized, served in teeny tiny dishes.

Our son is a big aficionado of sushi.....and actually, all Asian foods......

Although my husband would never eat the below foods.......I'm including a basic menu plan..........anyone who enjoys veggies and Japanese food could do this diet.

My personal opinion is that we are more than what we eat.

Occupational and environmental "toxins" and such will contribute to poor health.......not just the food we eat......however interesting the study may be.

If they lived on the outermost islands, perhaps a genetic thread ran through the long lived ones...



[ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400082005/?tag=eded-20"]The Okinawa Diet Plan[/ame] is based on the eating patterns of a group of elderly inhabitants of Okinawa, which is a collection of over a hundred islands off the coast of Japan. These people are reported to have some of the world’s longest life spans and best health.

Studies show that Okinawans who eat a traditional diet do not gain weight as they age and in addition their rates of heart disease are 80% less and of cancer are 50% less than Americans.

The Okinawa Diet Plan promises dieters that they will become leaner, live longer and never feel hungry by following the ten dietary principles of the Okinawan people. It may even help to reduce wrinkles due to the high antioxidant content of the diet.

The Okinawa Diet Basics


The diet plan is based on four groups of foods that are categorized according to their caloric density:

• Featherweights e.g. green tea and asparagus
• Lightweights e.g. fish and brown rice
• Middleweights e.g. hummus and lean red meat
• Heavyweights e.g. fried foods and desserts

The concept of the diet plan is on limiting calorie intake by emphasizing high volume, high nutrient foods with a low caloric density so the featherweight and lightweight foods will make up the majority of the diet.

It is important to restrict the tendency to overeat as occurs in Western diets. One of the major principles of the Okinawan approach to eating is to only eat until 80% full. If after 10-20 minutes you are still feeling hungry it is acceptable to eat more of the recommended foods if desired.

Okinawans eat on average 500 calories less per day than other social groups however the diet is not simply about calorie restriction but also emphasizes the selection of highly nutritious foods. The recommended foods are low in calories but high in flavor and nutrients. Low glycemic carbohydrates are included and these sustain energy and help keep dieters feeling full until the next meal.

Calorie restriction is a major key to increasing longevity however the authors state that this does not necessarily mean that dieters have to go hungry. Dieters are assisted to gradually phase into the Okinawan style of eating with an eight-week plan. This is designed to limit the feelings of frustration and deprivation that may occur when attempting to change eating habits too quickly and dramatically.

Recommended Foods


Broth based soups such as [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=miso soup&tag=edsearch-20&index=aps&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325 "]miso soup[/ame] are eaten before each meal so as to reduce the tendency to overeat.

Sweet potato is a staple food and is recommended for its high content of antioxidants.

Other foods that are particularly recommended include green vegetables, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=edible seaweed&tag=edsearch-20&index=aps&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325 "]edible seaweed[/ame], tofu, fish, brown rice and green tea.

Sample Diet Plan


Breakfast
Okinawan blueberry pancakes
Green tea
Morning Snack
Apple
Lunch
Sweet and sour mustard baked tofu
Steamed asparagus
Green salad
Baked sweet potato
Afternoon Snack
Raw vegetable crudités
Dinner
Miso soup
Shrimp and broccoli penne