[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Heyitsrick

Let me say at the outset that I'm fully vaccinated (since Feb). If a booster becomes available and is approved, I'll take it.

That said, I'm still not clear on this "if most people get vaccinated, there won't be any hosts for the virus to feed on" (paraphrasing the person you quoted) mantra. It's become obvious that vaccinated people can become infected from the virus, with the proviso that the symptoms of said infection are markedly less severe than in unvaccinated people.

What's not clear to me is whether vaccinated people who are infected can still pass along the virus to other vaccinated people. IF they can - and it does seem possible they can - where is this notion that the virus will ultimately disappear coming from?

Why do I ask and why do I care? Simple - I don't think people are going to wear masks and socially distance forever. At some point - and that point has to come in the not too distant future - some expert has to say the coast is clear. What "clear" actually means is another question. To me, it will mean that we are collectively at a stage where we're going to take our chances. Life must go on, outside of the bubble.

Not so fast!

The chances of a vaccinated individual getting COVID are very low. For the original virus it was 0.007% (yes, too good to be true and it probably was, but gives an idea of the probabilities under discussion). With the new mutations, the vaccine is somewhat less protective, looks like 1-2% breakthrough, subject to change.

So now it is simple math. Let's use 1% breakthrough-----so 1 in 100 vaccinated people can get the virus, then they have to be unmasked and close enough to another person for 15 min (less for delta variant). Then, if that person is vaccinated, they have to be the 1 in a hundred that could breakthrough themselves, and so on. So the odds of a vaccinated individual passing COVID to another vaccinated person is well under 1 in 10,000 (0.01%). Increase the breakthrough percentage to 5% and you still get less than 0.25% chance.

That is why this is now essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

ICUs are used all the time and families have been losing loved ones since the beginning of time. Who were you addressing your question to regarding a question?

I'm pretty sure it was the forum.....and I'm absolutely sure they made their point!

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Not so fast!

The chances of a vaccinated individual getting COVID are very low. For the original virus it was 0.007% (yes, too good to be true and it probably was, but gives an idea of the probabilities under discussion). With the new mutations, the vaccine is somewhat less protective, looks like 1-2% breakthrough, subject to change.

So now it is simple math. Let's use 1% breakthrough-----so 1 in 100 vaccinated people can get the virus, then they have to be unmasked and close enough to another person for 15 min (less for delta variant). Then, if that person is vaccinated, they have to be the 1 in a hundred that could breakthrough themselves, and so on. So the odds of a vaccinated individual passing COVID to another vaccinated person is well under 1 in 10,000 (0.01%). Increase the breakthrough percentage to 5% and you still get less than 0.25% chance.

That is why this is now essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

Care to explain why out of 7700 Delta infections in Israel from May to July

40% (3000) were fully vaccinated individuals
1% (72) were covid survivors with natural immunity
59% (4699) were unvaccinated individuals

Hardly a pandemic solely of the unvaccinated. Israel mostly used Pfizer vaccine.

Mayo Clinic study shows Pfizer vaccine only 42% effective against Delta. As of today 197 million doses of Pfizer vaccine have been administered in the USA. So about 100 million people citizens have only 42% protection against Delta.

CDC has stopped reporting breakthrough cases for some reason.

Sources:

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv

• COVID-19 vaccinations administered number by manufacturer U.S. 2021 | Statista

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Care to explain why out of 7700 Delta infections in Israel from May to July

40% (3000) were fully vaccinated individuals
1% (72) were covid survivors with natural immunity
59% (4699) were unvaccinated individuals

Hardly a pandemic solely of the unvaccinated. Israel mostly used Pfizer vaccine.

Mayo Clinic study shows Pfizer vaccine only 42% effective against Delta. As of today 197 million doses of Pfizer vaccine have been administered in the USA. So about 100 million people citizens have only 42% protection against Delta.

CDC has stopped reporting breakthrough cases for some reason.

Sources:

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv

• COVID-19 vaccinations administered number by manufacturer U.S. 2021 | Statista

Since this about the tenth time this type of data has been posted, I'm not going to bother verifying those sources. I'm simply going to remind people that THIS IS NOT ISREAL, and therefore such data may or may not be valid here. Data from the US suggests that it isn't.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Just short of 500 dead yesterday and more than that today. If that is what you consider a win …

Yes

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Since this about the tenth time this type of data has been posted, I'm not going to bother verifying those sources. I'm simply going to remind people that THIS IS NOT ISREAL, and therefore such data may or may not be valid here. Data from the US suggests that it isn't.

Thought so

So are you suggesting that the Israel Ministry of Health is incapable of counting their cases and knowing which people are vaccinated, not vaccinated, or a covid survivor?

Or maybe the Delta variant acted differently in Israel?

Last time I checked, the Mayo Clinic is US based. If you have a source proving their study is bogus post it.

PS We don't have accurate data on US breakthrough cases, because the CDC stopped posting it.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Thought so

So are you suggesting that the Israel Ministry of Health is incapable of counting their cases and knowing which people are vaccinated, not vaccinated, or a covid survivor?

Or maybe the Delta variant acted differently in Israel?

Last time I checked, the Mayo Clinic is US based. If you have a source proving their study is bogus post it.

PS We don't have accurate data on US breakthrough cases, because the CDC stopped posting it.

No, I'm suggesting there is a lot more genetic diversity in the US than Israel so the data may not be valid here

[kenoc7]

Originally Posted by Dana1963

And today there was an anti vaccine anti mask protest Sumter Landing by Villagers 4 *********** for mandatory inoculation which I don’t see as an issue yet.

Covidiots?

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Since this about the tenth time this type of data has been posted, I'm not going to bother verifying those sources. I'm simply going to remind people that THIS IS NOT ISREAL, and therefore such data may or may not be valid here. Data from the US suggests that it isn't.

Of course the fact that the CDC has stopped tracking breakthrough cases will help keep the numbers artificially low. If you look at the breakthrough cases in Europe, no country is reporting just 1-2%, not even close…

[MDLNB]

What other countries do should not dictate what the U.S. does. We have always been the standard for other countries to copy and we are doing a good job. DEATHS from COVID are down, even though infections are up. There is no reason for Americans to fight each other and eat our own. Americans are survivors.