[rubicon]

Originally Posted by John_W

I have just one comment to make. If people want to get wasted legally they drink and some get drunk. Some get mean drunk and then take it out on someone else. I've never heard of anyone getting mean high. Probably the biggest opponent of legalization are the bar owners and liquor companies.

Well there are mean drunks and then their are pot smokers chasing butterflies in the middle of a super highway.

Bar owners hate marijuana but drug dealers love pot smokers and will unlike bar owners drum up business in whatever way they can. If you believe legal pot will cut out the criminal element then let me tell you about a bridge I own in Brooklyn

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by elizabeth52

I worked in this field for years. Someone posted an article by Mitch Rosenthal...I sat in many meetings with Mitch. You can quote any number of studies or statistics to support an argument on either side. I have worked with this population. I have sat with individuals who begin their story the same way...I started with a couple of joints. I have seen the ravages of human beings of all ages who suffer the effects of long term subtance use or the consequences of short term impairment due to substance use. This includes grade school children to senior citizens.

To the arguement that alcohol is legal so why not marijuana I say SO WHAT!! let the argument for or against marijuana stand on its own. I have read the research, I have seen the damage and I believe that our society is better off not legalizing marijuana. Here is the current research from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).


DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)

Elizabeth 52; I quoted Rosenthal. I also served on a board involved with the rehab of kids. I attended rehab programs and was brought to tears.

Some wrote that we are not talking about heavy users. However the point made by others and me is that by legalizing it you socialize and by socializing it you normalize it and by normalizing it you give a clear signal to kids that it is not a problem. I mean isn't that why kids smoke because their parents smoked and if they smoked it must not be a problem.

I also said that a comparison to cigarettes and alcohol to pot was not a basis for making an argument for a number of reasons

And we have some here accusing people of confirmation bias and brain washing. So I wonder why medical and psychological warnings by reputable experts is ignored and trump by the coolness of Cheech and Chong?

Watch what you teach your kids

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by joerocker

Then tell me what exactly keeping something banned means to you. It's not individual freedom. It's dictating what we can and can't have. If something is illegal, it's because you (the collective "you") don't trust me with it.

Why do you make the jump that just because adults can have it...children will have increased availability? There's already as much available to children as they want. It's MORE available to children than alcohol is. Ask your grandkids if they can get it, which is easier for them to get. I know what the answer will be.

I know what your intentions are, to deny others something they desire. Absolutely incorrect assertion! You use the reasoning that "it's to protect the children". I did not use the reasoning you state!! My intention is to allow adults to "pick their poison" and not deny something they'd like to have over a false assumption not my assumption!! that kids will become walking zombies all hopped up on marijuana.

I don't think we're getting through to each other. My intent is to leave it at that and quit!

I am done explaining what I did not intend or say. Have a good day!

[Golfingnut]

Joe rocker, you are 100% correct in your posts! but you will never change a closed mind. It is who's opinion it is and nothing to do with right or a truck load of facts. I don't mess with pot, but that is because of the legality of it. When a younger generation takes over the reigns the laws will change and 50 years from now it will be thought of just like prohibition. The crazy this is, of my friends and family that think of pot as being so evil, drink alcohol without any guilt. Go figure what's going on in their alcohol pickled brains.

[elizabeth52]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Elizabeth 52; I quoted Rosenthal. I also served on a board involved with the rehab of kids. I attended rehab programs and was brought to tears.

Some wrote that we are not talking about heavy users. However the point made by others and me is that by legalizing it you socialize and by socializing it you normalize it and by normalizing it you give a clear signal to kids that it is not a problem. I mean isn't that why kids smoke because their parents smoked and if they smoked it must not be a problem.

I also said that a comparison to cigarettes and alcohol to pot was not a basis for making an argument for a number of reasons

And we have some here accusing people of confirmation bias and brain washing. So I wonder why medical and psychological warnings by reputable experts is ignored and trump by the coolness of Cheech and Chong?

Watch what you teach your kids

I agree with everything you said and I believe that you understand the negative impact legalization will have on our society, along with a hefty price tag. That is why I pray that legalization does not happen.

As for ignoring warnings by reputable experts and being trumped by the coolness of Cheech and Chong I know this for sure, smoking marijuana does not make you smarter!

[billethkid]

"...but you will never change a closed mind...."

I continue to remain amused when differences of opinions or different perspectives or plain old disagreement results in some being labeled, such as a closed mind.......

[elizabeth52]

The OP asked about the effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs. According to The National Institute on Drug Addiction, marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same resspiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses.


However, as a senior I would be more concerned with the short term effect where Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities

This is serious stuff. Stepping down now.

[joerocker]

I think legality will follow the path of gay marriage. Both beginning with just a few states eventually becoming national.

[swimdawg]

Originally Posted by elizabeth52

The OP asked about the effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs. According to The National Institute on Drug Addiction, marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same resspiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses.


However, as a senior I would be more concerned with the short term effect where Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities

This is serious stuff. Stepping down now.

I like to remain "open" but I'm with you, Eliz, on this one. I turned 70 last year and I declared it "The Decade of the Fun"! (like the Chinese Year of the Cat, Rat, Dog, etc). So.....of course, I told all my friends that this is The Decade of the FUN. One of my closest friends was going out to Colorado to visit her brother. Mind you, I never even smoked a cigarette no less MJ! So I told her, "Barb....this is 'The Decade of the Fun', let's try marijuana." You can try it out there....and then we'll try it here". So....her brother, who was ill, had a "brownie". She enjoyed a bit of the brownie.....til her heart started racing and she felt terrible. Her head was spinning and she was up all night long. She said, "No way, Karen!" So....since I am super sensitive to medications, I will never try it. I can't even enjoy a cup of decaf coffee after 3 PM, so the idea of trying something that might rev me up is a real turn off.

Bottom line: There are side effects to every single medication and certainly a lot of side effects to marijuana. No thanks!!!!

[PennBF]

It is so sad that a number of individuals believe that Marijuana is OK and nothing worst than alcholol, or it is like a "victimless" crime to use where not legal and many so on's. These same individuals have no experience with patients in Rehab either on Alcoholol or Marijuana. They have not seen the human pain from usage of these drugs. They have not seen the 16 or 17 year old in the throws of grand mall sizeures from these drugs or the results of starting on them and then growing into bigger "kicks" from stronger drugs. It is truly sad to watch these users go through the pain of withdrawal. There are many thousands involved in the illegal activity of pot and it is a huge cost to the citizens. There are kids pushing drugs and getting hooked and spreading the crime. These are NOT victimless. The impact on family life is a whole other story. Who cares if Pot is not as bad (although a stupid argument) as alcholol.
Has anyone watched the latest report by Patrick Kennedy who is totally against making it legal. He just came out of a Rehab. I think a lot of TOTV readers know I am strongly against making it legal. I have seen too much devestation. It is so sad.

[Polar Bear]

Irrespective of my opinion regarding the legalization of marijuana (I haven't fully decided yet), I always have one problem with the direct comparison of weed and alcohol...

I know many who use alcohol abuse it. But I also know that many who drink it casually really do enjoy a beer, a glass of wine, or a mixed drink for the flavor or to sip in a social setting. They do not get high and they never have any intention of getting high.

The same cannot be said for marijuana. Definitely clouds (no pun intended) the comparison for me.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by elizabeth52

The OP asked about the effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs. According to The National Institute on Drug Addiction, marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same resspiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses.


However, as a senior I would be more concerned with the short term effect where Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities

This is serious stuff. Stepping down now.

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Parker

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

Legalization would be with controls and would be helpful to those that are going to use it anyway. Like bootleg whiskey that has killed people during prohibition, that dramatically dropped when it was brought back into the supervision of government.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by rubicon

People drink for different reason. I like (one) glass of wine with my meal. However people who light up marijuana do so for one reason only and that is to get high.

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I know many who use alcohol abuse it. But I also know that many who drink it casually really do enjoy a beer, a glass of wine, ... for the flavor or to sip in a social setting. They do not get high and they never have any intention of getting high. The same cannot be said for marijuana.

Like Polar Bear, I haven't decided whether I'm yay or nay. But I do have a problem with the above comments about the intent of people that drink alcohol versus the intent of people who smoke grass.

If I understand the comments correctly, both PB and Rubicon believe that people who smoke grass do so ONLY to get high. And that for the most part, people who drink alcohol do so ONLY for the taste, not to get high, and not for the reason that it tends to relax people who are stressed out. (Although I have noticed the popularity of two-for-one happy hours).

Perhaps I'm naive, as I haven't been around pot smokers for many years. Perhaps things have changed. But with both alcohol and grass, I think the intention of mature adults is to enjoy the relaxing benefits of a drink or a toke, and not to get drunk or high.

[BarryRX]

No one is arguing that marijuana is safe. I mean, who would want to legalize a drug that has the following adverse effects:
Unintentional injuries, including traffic injuries, falls, drownings, burns, and unintentional firearm injuries.
Violence, including intimate partner violence and child maltreatment. About 35% of victims report that offenders are under the influence It is also associated with 2 out of 3 incidents of intimate partner violence. Studies have also shown that this is a leading factor in child maltreatment and neglect cases, and is the most frequent substance abused among these parents.
Risky sexual behaviors, including unprotected sex, sex with multiple partners, and increased risk of sexual assault. These behaviors can result in unintended pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases.
Miscarriage and stillbirth among pregnant women, and a combination of physical and mental birth defects among children that last throughout life.
This drug can result in poisoning, a medical emergency that results from high blood levels that suppress the central nervous system and can cause loss of consciousness, low blood pressure and body temperature, coma, respiratory depression, or death.13
Long-Term Health Risks
Over time, excessive the use can lead to the development of chronic diseases, neurological impairments and social problems. These include but are not limited to—
Neurological problems, including dementia, stroke and neuropathy.
Cardiovascular problems, including myocardial infarction, cardiomyopathy, atrial fibrillation and hypertension.
Psychiatric problems, including depression, anxiety, and suicide.17
Social problems, including unemployment, lost productivity, and family problems.
Cancer of the mouth, throat, esophagus, liver, colon, and breast.In general, the risk of cancer increases with increasing amounts of this drug.
Liver diseases, including—
hepatitis.
Cirrhosis, which is among the 15 leading causes of all deaths in the United States.
Among persons with Hepatitis C virus, worsening of liver function and interference with medications used to treat this condition.
Other gastrointestinal problems, including pancreatitis and gastritis
As you may have guessed, the above list of adverse effects is from Alcohol, not marijuana. So, if you don't want marijuana to be legal because of its bad side effects, then you must logically be for the prohibition of alcohol, which is much more dangerous to the health of the individual and probably to society. I have listened to many arguments on this forum about personal freedoms. Most revolve around the argument that the government should not be telling me what to do. If I want to smoke cigarettes, I'll smoke them. If I want to drive a gas guzzler, I'll drive it. If I want to drink 40oz sodas and get obese, then I'll do it. Why is this issue different from those?