[Bonnevie]

it's interesting that some on this thread want doctor's to have less education in areas outside of science. will they be the ones who complain that their doctor has no bedside manner, or should go to charm school as suggested about a practitioner in another thread?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

But they have to get into Med school which is competitive.

More complete thoughts would be appreciated. I wasn't the one recommending they take art or music.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

You CANNOT educate yourself into more I.Q. points. I.Q. is pretty much innate with some chance of some change but not a lot..
Only the top three percent of the population; the intellectually brightest people, are candidates for med school. No school can make you smarter. It can educate you in the material that you will need to become a physician, but you have to be smart enough to absorb it and emotionally strong enough to practice medicine.

What does that have to do with their shorter lifespan? (Average 73 for white physicians)

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by dbussone

Perhaps, but I can tell you from personal experience that many (probably most) colleges with strong science schools have pre-med tracks that leave little time for anything but core science courses/pre-med requirements. The first year undergrad may have English, a language, etc. But by the second year students are trying to survive organic chemistry and other similar courses.

It is not uncommon, for those who know they will go the pre-med route, to take AP courses in high school to get extraneous courses out of the way.

So can they at least eliminate the first year? Organic chemistry? How much of it will they remember by the time they start their practice? Memorize, memorize, memorize and then forget about it.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by blueash

Where did you get your statistic? Here is the last published data I could locate for your claim, and it is the opposite of your conclusion:

Mortality rates and causes among U.S. physicians. - PubMed - NCBI

"Among both U.S. white and black men, physicians were, on average, older when they died, than were lawyers, all examined professionals, and all men."

I just found that the male life expectancy has gone up to 75.2 Search: Male lifespan increasing - U.S.A. Today.

So doctors on average live 2.2 years less than the average male.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by dbussone

It appears you neglected to read/consider data provided by a previous poster. perhaps because it didn't support your position?


CONTENT/OBJECTIVES: No recent national studies have been published on age at death and causes of death for U.S. physicians, and previous studies have had sampling limitations. Physician morbidity and mortality are of interest for several reasons, including the fact that physicians' personal health habits may affect their patient counseling practices.
METHODS:
Data in this report are from the National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database and are derived from deaths occurring in 28 states between 1984 and 1995. Occupation is coded according to the U.S. Bureau of the Census classification system, and cause of death is coded according to the ninth revision of the International Classification of Diseases.
RESULTS:
Among both U.S. white and black men, physicians were, on average, older when they died, (73.0 years for white and 68.7 for black) than were lawyers (72.3 and 62.0), all examined professionals (70.9 and 65.3), and all men (70.3 and 63.6). The top ten causes of death for white male physicians were essentially the same as those of the general population, although they were more likely to die from cerebrovascular disease, accidents, and suicide, and less likely to die from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, pneumonia/influenza, or liver disease than were other professional white men.
CONCLUSIONS:
These findings should help to erase the myth of the unhealthy doctor. At least for men, mortality outcomes suggest that physicians make healthy personal choices.

Yes, I considered it and I responded to it. Average life expectancy for U.S. males is 75.2 If it's still 73 for physicians then they live 2.2 years less.

[graciegirl]

The thread was started on the premise that YOU think doctors should shorten their college time so we can have more doctors.

Now you give new figures on males living longer but still go by the old figures on doctors life span.

Are you sure you aren't a politician?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Great idea. Let's make it easier to become a doctor so that we have less qualified doctors.

The best and the brightest get attracted to this field because it pays so well. Sure, people who become doctors are also interested in what they do, but if it didn't pay so well, a number of them would choose to do something else.

It is extremely difficult to become a doctor. It should be so that we continue to attract the best and brightest to the field.

Personally, I'd rather have a shortage of outstanding doctors than a dearth of mediocre people who become docs because it was so easy.

[perrjojo]

One thing is clear, everyone of us has a different opinion. I think it would be good to ask your doctor next time you go in. Why do doctors think less people are going into practice? I am certain there are many reason.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I just found that the male life expectancy has gone up to 75.2 Search: Male lifespan increasing - U.S.A. Today.

So doctors on average live 2.2 years less than the average male.

No, you are misunderstanding the statistic. You cannot compare a life span number from 2013 to data collected in the 1980's. Again, where do you get your data that MD's life span is shorter than the average American? I posted numbers collected contemporaneously showing exactly the opposite, that MD's outlive their peer group. I think I am quite skilled at using the Google but I am willing to accept your findings if you can show me the source with a link. Some very exact numbers were posted with life spans for different kinds of doctors.

Originally Posted by Villages PL

It seems that U.S. physicians don't live as long, on average, as the rest of the population. I believe the average lifespan in the U.S. is about 78.

White physicians only live to 73 on average

Black doctors................68.7

Surgeons................68

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/158***32
Anesthesiologists are living longer: mortality experience 1992 to 2... - PubMed - NCBI
Mortality rates and causes among U.S. physicians. - PubMed - NCBI

[blueash]

Originally Posted by perrjojo

One thing is clear, everyone of us has a different opinion. I think it would be good to ask your doctor next time you go in. Why do doctors think less people are going into practice? I am certain there are many reason.

There are not fewer people going into practice. There is a change in the field of medicine chosen to practice. Whereas 50 years ago the great majority of MD's went into what we now call primary care, there has been a significant shift toward selection of specialties for medical school graduates. This mostly comes down to dollars, prestige, and life style issues. But the absolute number of MD's and DO's being trained in the US continues to go up just not as quickly as the need and there are problems with distribution by location and specialty. Some of this insufficiency is being filled with NP's and PA's both of which require significantly shorter training programs and are less intensive.

[NYGUY]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Perhaps 8 years of college are too many. Let's at least shorten it to about 6.

Too many non-essential courses are required.

A doctor should not be expected to be all things to all people. So why is a doctor required to take X number of years of a foreign language?

How about courses like art appreciation and music appreciation etc. When was the last time you discussed art or music with your doctor?

Algebra? Trigonometry?

How does a doctor use algebra when diagnosing a patient? If diagnosis = y and treatment = x, outcome = Get real!!!

We end up paying for all the time and money they spend getting their education.

I'll take the eight year doctor....you can have the 6!!

[VT2TV]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Perhaps 8 years of college are too many. Let's at least shorten it to about 6.

Too many non-essential courses are required.

A doctor should not be expected to be all things to all people. So why is a doctor required to take X number of years of a foreign language?

How about courses like art appreciation and music appreciation etc. When was the last time you discussed art or music with your doctor?

Algebra? Trigonometry?

How does a doctor use algebra when diagnosing a patient? If diagnosis = y and treatment = x, outcome = Get real!!!

We end up paying for all the time and money they spend getting their education.

Unless you are a physician, and I doubt that, you have no idea what you are talking about. If you want a doctor with less education of any kind, I hope you find one. Every experience in life, and yes , every class taken by anyone, teaches different things-maybe even having how to cope and learn things they don't think they need, but may find out someday that they learned far more in a certain course than they thought. You want someone who is well rounded with coping skills, self direction, and having to do something they may not want to do. You are assuming that all people going through medical school are going to be GP's, but they all have to rotate through Peds, OB, GYN, psych, surgery, community health and diseases, radiation, trauma, etc, etc. You never know what you will use in all these situations. I agree with RX who said they use classes like math in many instances, and when they need it, they need to know how to do it quickly. I could go on, but basically I don't know if 8 years is enough.

[Bizdoc]

We have the 6 year people - we call them Physician Assistants. They have a 4 year undergrad degree plus a 2 year professional degree.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Bizdoc

We have the 6 year people - we call them Physician Assistants. They have a 4 year undergrad degree plus a 2 year professional degree.

There are also 6 year MDs as I noted earlier. You go to combined undergrad/MD program year round for 6 years. Boston University has one such program.