[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

VP, I don't know you that well yet. But I must say I simply don't understand the point of your post. It doesn't ask a question. It doesn't request information. It doesn't respond to someone else's point. It doesn't pose a topic for an exchange of opinions and information. It simply states as fact an opinion that is highly arguable and, in some cases, hurtful and offensive.

What's the point?

Thanks for the input/suggestion. I went back and added a question.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by skyc6

Good question! What is the point??

The point is to get people thinking. What do you think about the big difference between the Okinawan's disease rates and our own?

Eating is simply not the root of all evil.

Yes, but this thread is not about "all evil". All evil covers a lot of teritory and we might agree on a lot of it.

Spending your days counting how many calories you can do without makes your world very small and closed in.

Sure, assuming I have been doing what you just immagined.

[rubicon]

All of us were incorrectly and forever told what the öldest profession"is.......... Truly the oldest profession is not prostitution but that profession where someone is going to advise you on how and what to eat how to act, etc and in what measurements and then promise you that is the fountain of youth.

I agree with those who subscribe to the Greek admonition of "äll things in moderation;albeit i have a sibling who will respond with I agree as long as i can get a lot of moderation.

In addition to moderation, I believe in excercise and a good sense of humor. As we often heard its a great life if you don't weaken.

I appreciate people's point of views on this subject and would never reject anything out of hand. However, life is to be lived and enjoyed because there is no such thing as a dress rehearsal.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

I can find a scientific study to support EVERY point of view.

Red wine is good for you, or alcohol in any form is bad for you.
Coffee is complex and is good for you, or caffine is bad for you.
Raw sugar is the only sweetener that is good for you, or that all sugar and artificial substitutes are bad.
Eat only fruits and vegetables, or lack of protein in the form of meat or fish is bad.
Lower calories add years to our lives, or your better off with a high fat diet.
Olive oil is the only one to use, olive oil is bad
Carbohydrates are good, or they are bad

I can find a well done scientific study to support every one of those positions. About the only consistent message is exercise in most any form is good. Sedentary is bad.

I personally believe that any thing in moderation is good. Doing anything in excess is bad including eating a so called healthy vegan diet or exercising to extreme. A balance of everything including wine, fat, sugar, meat, fruit, vegetables, olive oil, fish, and most everything else is OK if done in moderation. I believe natural anything is better then processed anything, that true organic is better then any thing grown using pesticides, that exercise is any form is better then none, and that by trying and experiencing all that life has to offer is the very best path to health and happiness.

Good post except I'll have to respectfully disagree with the practice of "moderation". The problem with moderation is that it generally represents something different to each person. Your concept of moderation may be far different than mine. One person might eat pizza once a week and call it moderation while others might choose twice a month or once a month. The last pizza I had was about 10 years ago. Is that moderation?

I think most Americans, if questioned about it, would claim to practice moderation. Yet our disease rates are much higher than they are for Okinawans. So how can we say that "moderation" is the key to good health when it's something that can't be quantified and the quality of food is unknown? It sounds like a very mysterious strategy.

If anyone is interested, I can give some parameters for the diet that I recommend.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

I can find a scientific study to support EVERY point of view.

Probably true but not all studies are created equal. And in our society, for example, someone who has a family history of heart disease might be advised to eat differently. And there are foods that naturally have both good and bad qualities, of which coffee and wine are good examples.

Red wine is good for you, or alcohol in any form is bad for you.
Coffee is complex and is good for you, or caffine is bad for you.
Raw sugar is the only sweetener that is good for you, or that all sugar and artificial substitutes are bad.
Eat only fruits and vegetables, or lack of protein in the form of meat or fish is bad.
Lower calories add years to our lives, or your better off with a high fat diet.
Olive oil is the only one to use, olive oil is bad
Carbohydrates are good, or they are bad

I can find a well done scientific study to support every one of those positions. About the only consistent message is exercise in most any form is good. Sedentary is bad.

Do you work for the food industry? The reason I ask is because what you are suggesting is exactly what the processed food industry wants Americans to believe. The processed food industry would love for everything to be in doubt. That's their best strategy because, if people believe it, they will just go ahead and eat everything, including lots of high calorie processed foods.

I personally believe that any thing in moderation is good. Doing anything in excess is bad including eating a so called healthy vegan diet or exercising to extreme. A balance of everything including wine, fat, sugar, meat, fruit, vegetables, olive oil, fish, and most everything else is OK if done in moderation. I believe natural anything is better then processed anything, that true organic is better then any thing grown using pesticides, that exercise is any form is better then none, and that by trying and experiencing all that life has to offer is the very best path to health and happiness.

There is some truth to some of the things you say. But to suggest a balance of sugar is good, for example, is something that adds calories with no nutritional value. You believe that natural is good but I wonder what's natural about sugar? And where is the scientific study to prove that sugar is good?

Furthermore, I started this thread to suggest that a reduced calorie diet (calorie restriction as practiced by the Okinawans) is healthier and leads to a much lower rate of all degenerative diseases, not to mention that Okinawans enjoy a longer lifespan. What well-done long-term study can you point to that proves the opposite? High calorie diets, over a long period of time, lead to higher disease rates and a shorter lifespan.

P.S. At the end of your post there was the following statement: "Life is too short to drink cheap wine." In the new book, "Gulp", the author mentioned a blind taste test where they gave several experts a choice of different priced wines. One was a $10 dollar wine and I believe the other two were $50 and $60. The experts chose the $10 dollar wine.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

...If anyone is interested, I can give some parameters for the diet that I recommend.

Nahhhh...I'm just gonna straight to an Okinawan.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Good post except I'll have to respectfully disagree with the practice of "moderation". The problem with moderation is that it generally represents something different to each person. Your concept of moderation may be far different than mine. One person might eat pizza once a week and call it moderation while others might choose twice a month or once a month. The last pizza I had was about 10 years ago. Is that moderation?

I think most Americans, if questioned about it, would claim to practice moderation. Yet our disease rates are much higher than they are for Okinawans. So how can we say that "moderation" is the key to good health when it's something that can't be quantified and the quality of food is unknown? It sounds like a very mysterious strategy.

If anyone is interested, I can give some parameters for the diet that I recommend.

villages PL: IMHO when folks reference "moderation in all things"they are referring to a way of living over a life time. The above-stated explanation you offer seems to me to be some short term explanation. Ex.. it doesn't mean I count how many pieces of pizza I had this week vis a vis another week, month etc.

[l2ridehd]

VP

I have a great solution for you. Move to Okinawa. I bet you would be so much happier then you are in TV. It's really not such a bad place. Been there many times. My wife lived there for a while. Except the last time I was there, they moved us to each different location in the airport with armed guards carrying AK 47's. Not for me, but you might love it. And health care is not so good either. There infant death statistic is excellent. Of course they don't count it as a birth until the baby is 6 weeks old. Here we count it when born. Look it up if you doubt me. And also the poor there have limited access to good health care so some of those "facts" you quote might be skewed just a bit. But you seem very willing to bet your life they are right. Sorry, but I don't believe there life is so perfect. I do agree that eating good food improves your quality of life, and exercise is a benefit to longevity as well. Obesity is also not good for a healthy life, however there is no magic answer.

As to your wine advice. Cheap wine does not equate to the price, but to the quality. I have had some excellent wines for under $10 a bottle. And some excellent wines for $300 a bottle. I have about 1000 bottles in my wine cellar with an average price of $64.20. (inventory app on iphone) Last night I had an excellent Brunello that was $85. And the night before a very good Sangiovasie from Traders Joes that was $6. Both were not cheap in quality, but one was low cost. Probably should change the saying to "life is to short to drink poor quality wine.

[gomoho]

Well now, that certainly sums things up!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by gomoho

Well now, that certainly sums things up!

For the moment.

[KeepingItReal]

...

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

I do agree that eating good food improves your quality of life, and exercise is a benefit to longevity as well. Obesity is also not good for a healthy life, however there is no magic answer.

Thank you for your two sentences of clarity. I too agree that processed foods can be unhealthy, and that very processed foods can be very unhealthy. For example, more and more people are becoming aware of the pitfalls of high fructose corn syrup to the point that food processors are "nervously" beginning to address it. More and more of us are becoming aware that "natural flavoring" or "natural seasoning" equals MSG? There are those who believe that when we left the farm and began to live in cities at the time of the Industrial Revolution, we lost the ability to prepare our own healthy foods on a daily basis, giving rise to something called "shelf life" and the need for it. History is fascinating, particularly when we choose to learn something from it!

HOWEVER, to make a leap from this to first "deserving" and subsequently "qualifying" for certain serious health conditions based on our personal choices just seems so over the edge and incredibly judgmental. If the OP had posited about processed foods, consuming too many calories, not exercising enough and left it at that, the point could have been well taken. But what followed--well intentioned as the OP might have been--at the very least makes no sense, and at the very most creates unnecessary upset for those readers who cited tragic experiences of loved ones and friends.

OP, perhaps you'd consider revising the ENTIRE second part of your post rather than the change of just the one word....

And reading about the suggestion that OP move to Okinawa reminds me of my comment to people who constantly complain about having to pay taxes. "Why not move to a place like Somalia where there are no taxes because there's no central government to collect them? Just be prepared to live a completely different lifestyle than you're used to--and be prepared also to dodge the bullets fired by the people of one warlord against those of another...." No roundabouts! Hmmm....

[Golfingnut]

OK here I go with my OPINION:

1. When all possible factors are the same: A balanced diet of whole---NON processed foods and especially additives will increase your likelihood of a longer life. I believe all the posters to this thread Know this to be true.

2. Rather than adding to or debating the OP Observations, some decided to pick a word or portion of a sentence to discredit the entire thread. I find those posts self serving and distracting to an other wise informative piece of information.

3. I give a sincere salute to VP for addressing, quite well, every negative response with grace.

4. I have decided that a holistic life including diet, drinking habits, exercise and even faith is far to difficult for me to follow, so I am overweight, have arthritis, allergies and so on. I do however know that if I would follow VP OP I could at least reduce some of the issues I have.

So, I say VP the second half of your thread was strong in the judgemental direction, but I also say thank you to Villages PL for a fine informative thread and I for one agree with you totally.

[graciegirl]

I think Golfingnut that you MAY have got into this discussion, one of many...

when the credits were rolling.

In order to understand the point of view of any poster you need to read all of their prior posts.

VP is very sincere and I am sure well meaning.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think Golfingnut that you MAY have got into this discussion, one of many...

when the credits were rolling.

In order to understand the point of view of any poster you need to read all of their prior posts.

VP is very sincere and I am sure well meaning.

MY MY MY. If you would take the time to read my post, you will see this line in it I also say thank you to Villages PL for a fine informative thread and I for one agree with you totally.
What part of that makes you think I missed VP's point. I got and I agree with it. It appears that you may been sleepy when you read mine. Also, keep in mind that if a post is OFF TOPIC, Admin will delete it. Please allow the moderators to do their job.