[jimbo2012]

FORKS OVER KNIVES

Read 7 amazing stories from people who have reversed heart disease and other life-threatening conditions with a plant-based diet here




.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Are there any stories with anecdotal evidence like these about people who went on Dr Esselstyn's diet and didn't reverse their heart disease?

We could take the quote in the picture differently. We could say that the Western diet guarantees that 329,500,000 people in the U.S. each year will not undergo bypass surgery.

[jimbo2012]

The quote could say how many drop dead before they make it to the operating room or ER.

About 610,000 people die of heart disease in the US every year–
that's 1 in every 4 deaths.
Heart disease is the leading cause of death for both men and women.

Or 1,300,000 balloon angioplasty & stents are inserted each year.

Or 800,000 have strokes each year.

The point is "Forks over Knives" or diet over surgery

Everyone knows this, but what do the majority of retired folks do about it in TV?
nothing or take more meds and surgery


Eat what you wish (use the moderation ie: lack of will power excuse )
your length of retirement will vary


.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

The quote could say how many drop dead before they make it to the operating room or ER.

About 610,000 people die of heart disease in the US every year–
that's 1 in every 4 deaths.
Heart disease is the leading cause of death for both men and women.

Or 1,300,000 balloon angioplasty & stents are inserted each year.

Or 800,000 have strokes each year.

The point is "Forks over Knives" or diet over surgery

Everyone knows this, but what do the majority of retired folks do about it in TV?
nothing or take more meds and surgery


Eat what you wish (use the moderation ie: lack of will power excuse )
your length of retirement will vary


.

Even if 5 million people die of heart disease every year. That still leaves 325 million that don't and they are for the most part eating the same diet.

If diet were the entire cause why don't 90% of Americans die from heart disease.

My point is that people like Carl Esselstyn and others that write books about diet make statements that support their point of view. Often times people don't really think about what is being said. And I'm saying this about the no carb, no sugar authors as well.

You say that everyone knows this like it's a proven fact beyond all doubt. In reality, there are just as many qualified cardiologists that don't believe that this diet works for everyone or is necessary. In fact, s I'm sure you know, there have been many books written by esteemed doctors that say the exact opposite of what Esselstyn, Ornish, Pritikin, Haas and their ilk say.

Then of course when someone comes up with a rational reason for not eating this way, you call it an excuse.

Sorry Jimbo, we don't all KNOW this. There is a lot of conflicting information about diet.

The other thing is that all of these "experts" use a lot of anecdotal evidence to support their claims. As physicians, they should know that unscientific studies prove nothing. Just because one of these diets works for a few people, doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

I would be willing to wager that there have been some people that have adopted the Forks over Knives program and died of heart disease anyway.

While it's true, there has been great reluctance from the medical community to do proper studies, without them we really will never know.

All of the diet authors claim politics are preventing their message from getting out and that is probably true. But if it's true, it applies to Arthur Agatston and William Davis as well. If anything, the AMA and the government have been more friendly toward low fat and high carb diets than any other.

I'm glad that this program has worked for you and I'm glad that you are happy with it. I am not convinced however, that it will work for everyone. I am also concerned as I have said in the past that this type of diet is extremely difficult for most people to stay on. That's not an excuse, it's just a fact. What good is a program, no matter how effective, when only small percentage of people are either not willing or not able to stay on it?

Another point is that many people may choose knives over forks. Maybe not knowingly, but many people would rather not give up the food that they love and are willing to trade a few years of their life for it. Many people think that it would be a miserable life without meat, nuts, oils of any kind, fish, milk, eggs, ice cream and all of the other foods prohibited on this diet. Some people might say, "I'd rather enjoy my time here even if it's even if it's a little less time." And to many people, these foods are what makes life fun and exciting. Life without them would be no life at all.

Good luck and I sincerely hope that this program keeps working for you and that you are able to maintain it for the rest of your life.

[Barefoot]

[outlaw]

Over my life, I've watched the government's food pyramid turn into a food top.

[rubicon]

Two guys from my hometown just passed within a year of each other

Tony died at the age of 100. He smoked cigars all day and knocked off at least 10 shots of rye a day. He was an avid meat eater, a lover of pasta..........you get the point.

Jimmy just died he was 101. he was an avid hunter and fisherman. He too smoked drink ate what he caught was a meat eater and also a pasta lover.

Should one use these examples as what to do to extend longevity?

DNA rules.

I also believe that as we age the process itself alters are eating habits. I eat more smaller meals now. I found that my meat intake dropped not because of some intentional plan but because my body seemed content with less.

I am careful to maintain proper nutrition because as we age we need to keep up our strength. Nature via (cravings) seem to help just be sure if you have a taste for something you don't cheat yourself. If you have a taste for cheese ea cheese and not cheese flavored chips.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Over my life, I've watched the government's food pyramid turn into a food top.

And now it's just a pile, albeit a small one, of unknown value approved in DC by someone.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Two guys from my hometown just passed within a year of each other



Tony died at the age of 100. He smoked cigars all day and knocked off at least 10 shots of rye a day. He was an avid meat eater, a lover of pasta..........you get the point.



Jimmy just died he was 101. he was an avid hunter and fisherman. He too smoked drink ate what he caught was a meat eater and also a pasta lover.



Should one use these examples as what to do to extend longevity?



DNA rules.



I also believe that as we age the process itself alters are eating habits. I eat more smaller meals now. I found that my meat intake dropped not because of some intentional plan but because my body seemed content with less.



I am careful to maintain proper nutrition because as we age we need to keep up our strength. Nature via (cravings) seem to help just be sure if you have a taste for something you don't cheat yourself. If you have a taste for cheese ea cheese and not cheese flavored chips.

DNA absolutely rules. This post is well stated.

[jimbo2012]

Not really, but if you believe that , U better hope you have Tony or Jimmys

[dbussone]

There are many Tonys and Jimmys all around us. I currently have 8 relatives over 90, and my grandmother lived to be an active 103. My genes will have great bearing on the length of my life, assuming an accident doesn't take place. At my current age the projection is that my life expectancy will be close to 90.

Boy I love The Villages. At 2 games a week I have a shot at another 20800 games of golf. I'm hoping for a hole in one and a score below my age.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I don't think it's as simple as genetics rule or diet will guarantee a long health life. I think that each impacts our health and life.

The problem with diet today is that there are a lot of conflicting opinions on what exactly is a healthy diet. All of the proponents of these various diets cite cases where their diet has worked. Blood pressure has come down, cholesterol levels have dropped, or in some cases they claim that cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease. Some make the case for keeping your LDL high and avoiding inflammation. There are differing opinions on what causes inflammation. And again all of the people pushing these various ideas can cite all kinds of anecdotal evidence "proving" that their plan works.

Family history of heart disease has been proven to be a contributing factor. If you father and grandfather had it, you are more likely to get it. It's the same with cancer and all sorts of other diseases. In fact there is a condition called familial hypertriglyceridemia. It's been shown that members of the same family can have extremely high triglyceride levels. So high in fact that no diet or medications have been shown to be able to lower them.

That's not to say that diet can't affect these conditions. It's a question of which diet will help.

[jimbo2012]

All excuses

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

All excuses

Can you prove that?

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=CFrance;1068722]Can you prove that?[/QUOTe

Of course he can't. There is no science behind his post.