[MorTech]

There are also doctors that want to keep you sick cuz "A patient cured is a customer lost".

The medical care industry is now over 20% of GDP. That is pretty disgusting and fraudulent.

[MorTech]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Glad to hear you know so much more than doctors that you can ignore them and treat yourself. I only have 11 years of education post high school and 40 years experience. Can I please come to you for education and treatment???😂😂😂

Which doctors are you talking about? Or are they all the same?

[Whatnext]

Nothing wrong with seed oils, in Moderation.
They are heavily used in processed foods, which are the real villains.
As for cutting out all carbohydrates, tell that to elite endurance athletes, their engines need copious amounts to endure.
The Tour de France riders would barely get to the top of the first mountain without them!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Freeda

That's wonderful. I follow all of Dr. Steven Gundry MD's advice, including his 'yes/no' foods list, which has similarities to the food program you describe; and at 74 I, too, take no prescription drugs; I read his books, though I do not follow many of his numerous podcasts, just for lack of time. (I do take prescription eyedrops for my glaucoma, which is a genetic/inherited trait; but even that is improving, and my Dr. has taken me off one of the drops). I also take USANA, and have for 22 years; back in the early days of doing that, I saw my asthma/allergies and right knee problem - which was scheduled for surgery - all go away.
Yes, it is possible,at least from my and many others' experiences, to not need prescription drugs. Even Dr. Gundry discusses in his books the health problems that they have on our microbiome; the healthy maintenance of which is key to maintaining our overall health. Dr. Gundry frequently quotes Hippocrates, the ancient Greek physician, who said long ago, 'All disease starts in our gut'; the only difference is that Hippocrates' belief was based on intuition from what he observed; whereas today there is laboratory science to prove it to be true.

So, he sells books, does podcasts, and btw sells a whole array of "supplements". No surprise. Now, here's the 411 on "Doctor" Stephen Gundry:

"Steven Robert Gundry (born July 11, 1950) is an American physician, low-carbohydrate diet author and former cardiothoracic surgeon.[1][2] Gundry is the author of The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in "Healthy" Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain, which promotes the controversial and pseudoscientific lectin-free diet.[3] He runs an experimental clinic investigating the impact of a lectin-free diet on health.

Gundry has made erroneous claims that lectins, a type of plant protein found in numerous foods, cause inflammation resulting in many modern diseases.[4] His Plant Paradox diet suggests avoiding all foods containing lectins.[5] Scientists and dietitians have classified Gundry's claims about lectins as pseudoscience.[5][6] He sells supplements that he claims protect against or reverse the supposedly damaging effects of lectins.[7]"

Yep, he does have a cult-like following. But then again so did Jim Jones of the People's Temple. Just don't drink the Kool-Aid.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Alrighty then...LOL

Most Americans are now insulin resistant and at least pre-diabetic...What's causing that?
None of these modern diseases were around 100 years ago. Plant seed oil is probably the very worst.

Start by taking a look at the government "food pyramid" fraud.

Carbohydrates (especially Fructose) and unsaturated fats (such as linoleic acid) are metabolic toxins in Sapiens. Themsbe the medical facts. Are you really going to posit a little bit of poison is good for you? How about not much poison is not too bad for you?

There has never been a medical case attributed to a "carbohydrate deficiency". Not only are carbohydrates non-essential, they are metabolically toxic to humans. Two biggies that carbohydrates cause are diabetes and Dementia/Alzheimer's.

That first sentence sounds like it's right out of that quack Gundry's propaganda. Now, please cite a reference that states "the fact" that carbohydrates are "poison"---from a legitimate source, not the "Southern Mongolian Journal of Pseudoscientific Crap". That would be interesting since without carbohydrates every one of us would be dead within seconds. And btw, diabetes has been around since antiquity, it is not a "modern" disease. (First mentioned in the Ebers Papyrus circa 1550 BC). May I suggest also not drinking the Kool-Aid.

[MorTech]

Nothing wrong with a metabolic poison in moderation? Really? "Moderation" is not a unit of measure.
My neighbor is nearly blind from a lifelong carbohydrate addiction. She is pre-diabetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDGvEI7znkE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cqNDDG4aA

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Unfortunately, you float in a boat that contains all sorts of physicians. Many are excellent, well read, open to conversation with their patients and work diligently for the patient's benefit. Sad to say that is not always the case and there are more than a few "inadequate" physicians in one way or another. Why would Drs. be impervious from the issues that plague the general population? They're only human.

Very true, and I also wish the 8-10% of incompetent and impaired physicians would have their licenses yanked

Originally Posted by MorTech

There are also doctors that want to keep you sick cuz "A patient cured is a customer lost".

The medical care industry is now over 20% of GDP. That is pretty disgusting and fraudulent.

Never met one of those---can you cite a factual example????

Originally Posted by MorTech

Which doctors are you talking about? Or are they all the same?

The 92% that are not in the group above

I'm beginning to think I missed the boat here. Maybe I should start a website, a podcast, sell supplemental crap and spout out a bunch of nonsense. There are always people that will pay to eat that up.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Nothing wrong with a metabolic poison in moderation? Really? "Moderation" is not a unit of measure.
My neighbor is nearly blind from a lifelong carbohydrate addiction. She is pre-diabetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDGvEI7znkE

Metabolic poison????? Is that the new term for an essential component of intermediary metabolism without which we would all be dead????? And your neighbor is not blind from eating carbs, she probably has stage 4 diabetic retinopathy with repetitive retinal hemorrhages. Let me guess---she's had more laser treatments than she can count. That does not suggest "pre-diabetes"---how many hypoglycemic medications does she take???

[Michael 61]

From further reading these posts, and relating to my own experience, is that most (not all) doctors have very little training and knowledge in the area of nutrition. The educational requirement for training in Nutrition for doctors is minimal. This is what leads many who are interested in exploring whether lifestyle changes can correct chronic issues vs taking prescription meds as a viable option to seek education and information outside of their doctor. This is sad, and should not be the case. The doctor should also be the knowledgeable source in areas of nutrition. If someone has a doctor who is, then you are extremely fortunate, as that is a rarity nowadays. I have found that I have had to educate my doctors at times about nutritional information. At the end of the day, I listen to my own body, and check my results and progress against frequent blood work. I know what foods lead to inflammation, lethargy, weight gain, sleeplessness, and gut issues, and which do not. And yes, seed oils are toxic! Even in moderation, they are poison. Same as saying occasionally smoking is ok in moderation.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Michael 61

From further reading these posts, and relating to my own experience, is that most (not all) doctors have very little training and knowledge in the area of nutrition. The educational requirement for training in Nutrition for doctors is minimal. This is what leads many who are interested in exploring whether lifestyle changes can correct chronic issues vs taking prescription meds as a viable option to seek education and information outside of their doctor. This is sad, and should not be the case. The doctor should also be the knowledgeable source in areas of nutrition. If someone has a doctor who is, then you are extremely fortunate, as that is a rarity nowadays. I have found that I have had to educate my doctors at times about nutritional information. At the end of the day, I listen to my own body, and check my results and progress against frequent blood work. I know what foods lead to inflammation, lethargy, weight gain, sleeplessness, and gut issues, and which do not. And yes, seed oils are toxic! Even in moderation, they are poison. Same as saying occasionally smoking is ok in moderation.

“Seed oils are toxic”. More Gundry garbage

[Michael 61]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

“Seed oils are toxic”. More Gundry garbage

For many, including myself, who have eliminated seed oils from the their diet, it’s been a game-changer for improving health and either reducing or eliminating chronic issues. The medical community is slowly coming around to seeing the dangers of seed oils. (And I have no idea who this Grundy guy is).

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Michael 61

For many, including myself, who have eliminated seed oils from the their diet, it’s been a game-changer for improving health and either reducing or eliminating chronic issues. The medical community is slowly coming around to seeing the dangers of seed oils. (And I have no idea who this Grundy guy is).

Glad it works for you, great. But anecdotal evidence is what the snake oil salesmen thrive upon. Please reference a multi-centered, double blinded, placebo-controlled study of at least 5,000 individuals published in a reputable medical journal (again. not the Southern Mongolian Journal of Pseudoscientific and Holistic Crap) that supports the concept of seed oils as being "poison". (I've never heard of a murder trial where the weapon was sunflower seed oil )

From the Cleveland Clinic:

Have you heard the claim that seed oils are “toxic”? Some social media users blame them for everything, from acne and weight gain to cancer and infertility. But as is so often the case, the truth is a lot more nuanced than TikTok typically reveals.

From the American Heart Association:

"There's no reason to avoid seed oils and plenty of reasons to eat them

The "Hateful Eight" may sound like an old-time Western movie, but this showdown doesn't involve cowboys or horses or even guns. It's a battle over the supposed dangers posed by eight seed oils – canola, corn, cottonseed, grapeseed, soy, rice bran, sunflower and safflower – and it's being fought on social media.

To listen to some people on TikTok, YouTube or any of a number of podcasts, the oil extracted from these plants is poisoning us. But is it, really?

"It's so odd that the internet has gone wild demonizing these things," said Dr. Christopher Gardner, a professor of medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine in California and a nutrition scientist at the Stanford Prevention Research Center. "They are not to be feared."

[Michael 61]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Glad it works for you, great. But anecdotal evidence is what the snake oil salesmen thrive upon. Please reference a multi-centered, double blinded, placebo-controlled study of at least 5,000 individuals published in a reputable medical journal (again. not the Southern Mongolian Journal of Pseudoscientific and Holistic Crap) that supports the concept of seed oils as being "poison". (I've never heard of a murder trial where the weapon was sunflower seed oil )

As I stated previously, at the end of the day - “I listen to my own body” - that is what matters most to me. You can’t convince me that I should return to consuming seed oils, and still maintain my current level of health. I have personally experienced the negative physical effects of consuming these oils high in unhealthy Omega 6.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Michael 61

As I stated previously, at the end of the day - “I listen to my own body” - that is what matters most to me. You can’t convince me that I should return to consuming seed oils, and still maintain my current level of health.

And I wouldn't want to. For the same reason I wouldn't try to convince a member of the People's Temple not to follow Jim Jones to Guyana.

But seriously, there is no harm in what you are doing. Whether or not your results can be extrapolated to a large group of people is doubtful, and certainly unproven.

Here's another reference from the view of a gastroenterologist:

Do Seed Oils Cause Inflammation?
If you’re asking yourself, “Should I just throw out my canola oil right now?,” the gastroenterologist wants you to pump the brakes as he explains how seed oils can be a healthier alternative to other ingredients.

“What are you comparing it to?” he says in response to whether seed oils are inflammatory. “Many of the people who tell us that seed oils are so bad are the same people that tell us, ‘Don’t worry about saturated fat, it’s not a problem.’ And yet, if you look at the studies where they replace saturated fat with seed oils, people have less inflammation.”

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Glad to hear you know so much more than doctors that you can ignore them and treat yourself. I only have 11 years of education post high school and 40 years experience. Can I please come to you for education and treatment???😂😂😂

You seem to have missed the part where I cured my pre-diabetes, blood pressure, and cholesterol by ignoring at least 4 doctors in the past 15 years telling me to take pills and not even asking about my diet.

Assuming you are a doctor by your post, do you even read the answers to the "pre-physical questionnaire"? My doctors certainly didn't. They didn't even mention the fact I said I was drinking 8 -10 cocktails 3 nights per week. They never asked about my diet at all. They looked at test results and suggested pills. When all my test results were normal they still tried to put me on pills. So yeah, I don't trust your 11 years experience if that's what you are doing.

Do you have a criticism of my experience trying to find doctors? Can I interview you before I decide to see you?

Apart from that, and just so you know, I have a biology degree and I've worked in big pharma for 29 years. I have been in QA for the past 15 years. I also audit our CMOs and our suppliers for cGMPs. I am responsible for FDA audit handling every time we get audited. So you can put all your laughing emojis and think that speaking down to me from a "position of authority" somehow makes your answers more correct, but you would be mistaken.