Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   Medical and Health Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/)
-   -   Ruh Roh - COVID and masks close enough to be masking (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/ruh-roh-covid-masks-close-enough-masking-343603/)

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotGolfer (Post 2248661)
Forced close-downs. "They" said earlier that the face-diapers don't work. Think about it----hard!! Did y'all comply before by staying in as much as possible, did you wash your hands and social distance and do everything told to you before-----yet still got the infection?? Tis strange it seemed to almost "go away" and now is re-emerging.

A virologist might think that a disease mutating and re-emerging is common.

JMintzer 08-25-2023 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2249536)
A virologist might think that a disease mutating and re-emerging is common.

It is. And most commonly, they mutate into a weaker strain... That way, they don't kill off all of the hosts...

Bill14564 08-25-2023 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2249515)
The flu numbers have been published and are non-zero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2249531)
According to the CDC, there were only 5K Flu Deaths in the 2020-2021 Flu Season.

That's less than 1/5 of a light year (25K deaths) and about 1/10 of a regular year (50K deaths)

Thank you. Published and non-zero.

The CDC has another count on the Weekly Influenza Surveillance Report page. It shows a significant drop in 2021 (the year, not the season) with a return to normal in 2022. It is interesting that the counts on this page are significantly less than on other CDC pages. Perhaps more detailed reporting?

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2248692)
Let’s just hope we learned from the last go around that paper face masks are useless for the person wearing it and closing down the economy is disastrous. Maybe not

What I learned the last "go around" is that many ordinary people like to disregard advice by experts and scientists, while preferring advice from the dark web and conspiracy channels. (remember the ultra-violet light advice).

Vermilion Villager 08-25-2023 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2248692)
Let’s just hope we learned from the last go around that paper face masks are useless for the person wearing it and closing down the economy is disastrous. Maybe not

Please tell us how wearing a K-95 or KN-95 is not effective?
Would you have open heart surgery if you knew the surgical team was operating on you without masks on?:ho:

asianthree 08-25-2023 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2249533)
I don't see the humor in the fact that COVID is still with us and is KILLING some Americans. And since The Villages is made up of OLDER citizens who are demographically the ones most affected, then it becomes even less humorous.

Some of look at it, was Covid the factor, or just a long list of what was already a slow death for years. Stage 4 Mets, accident victims, abuse, death is the same, sometimes you just can’t save them, then you move on to the next

Medical people have a warped sense of humor, why, because death is a everyday occurrence, sometimes more than one, not just old people, that have lived a full life, but teens, and infants.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall55 (Post 2248797)
I guess I am on of the Lone Rangers. I still practice social distancing, won't even think about spending time in a large group setting like concerts, wash my hands regularly, and routinely disinfect my home . But, I have not gone back to wearing a mask. I have not had Covid and I try to keep it that way. Why invite trouble?

I agree. I must be one of the TONTOS.

asianthree 08-25-2023 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2249541)
Please tell us how wearing a K-95 or KN-95 is not effective?
Would you have open heart surgery if you knew the surgical team was operating on you without masks on?:ho:

Well they aren’t wearing a N-95. Plus by the time you are wheeled in, with little versed, and fentanyl, you won’t have a clue what they are wearing, right down to the bunny ears on their shoe covers.

paulajr 08-25-2023 02:55 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2248585)
At CoachK's hospitals, the hospital staff COVID infection rate is borderline to the hospitals requiring staff and patients to be masked mandatorily.

Friends of mine are coming down sick testing positive. .

Just facts, no judgements, YMMV

Boston waste water upticking and its still summertime in the NorthEast!

Glad we moved out of Massachusetts 10 years ago…

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitley (Post 2248893)
Your quote made me think. Most of us get on the younger generations case for not growing up, settling down, being responsible. Here is something to think about; The goal has always been 2.6:1. 2years 6months of salary to purchase a home. This is taking the mean income and mean price of a home. In 1980 for me it was 2.4. Today it is 9:1. The ratio of income to automobile is equally unbalanced (comparing 1980 to today). This makes it very hard to be able to "own" your own home (or car). You will own nothing and be thankful. I'm not even addressing the debt coming out of college (in one generation my college went from 9k to 48k a year). Young adults today really do have a bum deal. If you want to really see how bad it is, consider what social media has done to relationships. It is very concerning.

After 1980 the middle class began disappearing. Real average wages stayed constant with respect to inflation until about 2010 when some wage gain began. Look to the tax bracket changes to see that middle-class wealth went to the upper class.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle06 (Post 2249048)
It's time to treat COVID as another "Flu Variation". We will never be without it. If individuals feel the need to mask up, let them. Read the OSHA reports on the Cloth and Cheap Surgical Masks. They provide "No, None, Zero, Nunca, Nada" protection. The country will not tolerate another lockdown. We live in the Free State of Florida!

Nationally, with respect to COVID death rates, Florida had the 2nd most age-adjusted death rates among the states. TX. and other southern tier states had higher rates than Fl. And NY and Ca. had lower rates.

Byte1 08-25-2023 03:40 PM

I guess you learn something new, no matter how old you get. I had assumed that the reason for doctors wearing masks in surgery is so that THEY do not transmit germs/illnesses to the patient. AND they (some) would additionally wear face shields to prevent contamination from the patient.
Personally, I have no intention of wearing a mask IF it is not mandated somewhere that I have to go. I may have unknowingly had or carried the virus in the past couple years, but I am not going to change my activities or attire on the presumption that I may or may not be infected or carrying the virus. I have no problem with others wearing protection such as mask and gloves where ever they travel, in or out of their cars and in or outside of public places. When I was in Japan, many folks in Tokyo wore masks in the city. I didn't, but I am not going to pressure anyone else as to how they should or should not protect themselves.
I prefer to be the glass half full type of person, not a "the sky is falling" hysterical type. I do agree with those that believe that staying locked in their homes will protect them from catching any communicable diseases. I also believe that if you do not drive, you have less chance of having an traffic accident. If you do not fly, you will not die in a plane crash. But, I like to live dangerously. I have been known to step on the cracks in sidewalks and have even traveled in the back seat of a car without using the seat belt on more than one occasion.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chitown (Post 2249252)
I will NEVER wear a mask again.

Never say never. In the future, things change. There could be a NEW virus and people might have to wear a mask to get on a plane or enter a building. The world has global warming and warming causes more virus growth, not less.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrymini (Post 2249330)
Covid is here to stay, get used to it. I am keeping my paper masks because I may run out of toilet paper, no other reason to keep them. I would not be surprised to see a “resurgence” before any upcoming political votes. Got to keep people scared and malleable. Works every time!

I wonder where the connection between voting and COVID came from. How about Russian troll farms - they have a vested interest in keeping US voting down.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haysus7 (Post 2249364)
Kentucky closed schools due to infections after 2 weeks of being open

I heard that 2 school districts in Kentucky had to close because of RSV, COVID, and flu.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitley (Post 2249403)
Globally 1.7 million people die a year from the common cold.

That's nothing to sneeze at.

Now that is GOOD humor.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2249478)
Talk about sewage... It is 100% accurate to say that the finding of viral RNA in wastewater indicates circulating infectious virus in the community. There is nothing suspect about it except I suspect you don't know what you're talking about. You in your greater wisdom could perhaps explain to me how genetic material from Covid gets into the wastewater if there is no Covid in area.

Fourth, you are wrong that masks made no difference. The data, and there is lots of it if you want to do a GoogleScholar search, showed masks did work, just less well than hoped. The failure to find greater efficacy is because of people not wearing masks correctly, and human nature to not practice good hygiene, hand wash, social distance etc. even when mask wearing.

Lastly, you are correct that some viral strains tend to weaken over time, that is sadly not always the case. If it were then we would never have a more severe influenza season. We would never have seen SARS or MERS. Polio would have disappeared without a vaccine... and measles... and ebola... and etc. etc. etc.

Thank you for some BADLY NEEDED wisdom!!!!!!!

Randall55 08-25-2023 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2249559)
I guess you learn something new, no matter how old you get. I had assumed that the reason for doctors wearing masks in surgery is so that THEY do not transmit germs/illnesses to the patient. AND they (some) would additionally wear face shields to prevent contamination from the patient.
Personally, I have no intention of wearing a mask IF it is not mandated somewhere that I have to go. I may have unknowingly had or carried the virus in the past couple years, but I am not going to change my activities or attire on the presumption that I may or may not be infected or carrying the virus. I have no problem with others wearing protection such as mask and gloves where ever they travel, in or out of their cars and in or outside of public places. When I was in Japan, many folks in Tokyo wore masks in the city. I didn't, but I am not going to pressure anyone else as to how they should or should not protect themselves.
I prefer to be the glass half full type of person, not a "the sky is falling" hysterical type. I do agree with those that believe that staying locked in their homes will protect them from catching any communicable diseases. I also believe that if you do not drive, you have less chance of having an traffic accident. If you do not fly, you will not die in a plane crash. But, I like to live dangerously. I have been known to step on the cracks in sidewalks and have even traveled in the back seat of a car without using the seat belt on more than one occasion.

Please keep your living dangerously from infecting others who choose not to do so.

Maker 08-25-2023 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2249541)
Would you have open heart surgery if you knew the surgical team was operating on you without masks on?

The context of the question is wearing N-95 masks...

Me: I am healthy. No indications of any colds, infections, coughs, diseases, etc. I would also isolate for days in advance to minimize my risk of catching something when I want my body healing from surgery, and not fighting some other new illness too.

I would be ok with your scenario because masks are not effective for containing a virus traveling from surgeon to me. And surgeon does not need to protect themselves from me. I would expect surgeon, and the team, to wear a simple procedure mask, some level of eye protection, and gloves - to protect contact from unexpected blood splatters.

You might also want to learn about how air in an OR is ventilated and cleaned.

dhdallas 08-25-2023 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2248585)
At CoachK's hospitals, the hospital staff COVID infection rate is borderline to the hospitals requiring staff and patients to be masked mandatorily.

Friends of mine are coming down sick testing positive. .

Just facts, no judgements, YMMV

Boston waste water upticking and its still summertime in the NorthEast!

Fortunately we live in Florida where we are allowed to abstain from the herd mentality and mandates that do not work.

BTW, what is a CoachK hospital; is it s psychiatric hospital? Boston waste water is "upticking"? So are more people flushing their toilets there or what? Finally, there is no such word as "mandatorily" except for those who cheat at Scrabble.

Happinow 08-25-2023 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotGolfer (Post 2248661)
Forced close-downs. "They" said earlier that the face-diapers don't work. Think about it----hard!! Did y'all comply before by staying in as much as possible, did you wash your hands and social distance and do everything told to you before-----yet still got the infection?? Tis strange it seemed to almost "go away" and now is re-emerging.

Simply to see how far the sheep will follow. I, for one will have nothing more to do with masks. Didn’t wear them back then…never once got Covid. Won’t wear them now. Haven’t you all learned anything? The masks are a lie, the shots are a lie and anything that comes into a Dr. Office is coded Covid. Why??? They get big money for Covid diagnosis. It’s not about you and your health…it’s about the money!

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2249536)
A virologist might think that a disease mutating and re-emerging is common.

As a matter of fact, right here in our backyard, tonight's high school football game for Lake Weir at St. Francis has been CANCELLED due to a COVID outbreak at St. Francis. If this is happening in a small town in Florida, it may be happening all over the US. Many Doctors and scientists have said that COVID will be with us for a long time.

jimjamuser 08-25-2023 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happinow (Post 2249598)
Simply to see how far the sheep will follow. I, for one will have nothing more to do with masks. Didn’t wear them back then…never once got Covid. Won’t wear them now. Haven’t you all learned anything? The masks are a lie, the shots are a lie and anything that comes into a Dr. Office is coded Covid. Why??? They get big money for Covid diagnosis. It’s not about you and your health…it’s about the money!

That was a rumor and a fallacy that made the rounds early in the Pandemic. Hospital coding professionals said that NO attempt was made to boost COVID diagnosis.

Ragman 08-25-2023 06:46 PM

My Personal choice living with COVID now
 
COVID is now endemic and will circulate with other respiratory viruses in some form for years to come.

We are now at the point of a personal level of risk. If your health risk is high or toleration of risk is low, by all means mask, distance or do anything that you think necessary. If you fell otherwise , don't. Your physician is the best source of your personal health risk.

I know many more people who have contracted COVID in the past few months, but in almost all cases a relatively mild case (yes, some are more severe especially in older adults or those with comorbidities just like the flu or RSV) All these viruses will wax and wane to an extent.

Personally, I don't intend to mask on a regular basis, but carry a N-95 in case I'm in a doctor's office or other places where there may be a population of ill persons. I will get my annual flu shot, as well as a RSV and COVID booster when available this fall. I ask none of you to do more or less than I, but do wish you would stay home if you have any respiratory symptoms ( as I would have asked 10 years ago, before COVID was a passing thought).

All this debate is good grist for blogs and MSM articles, but would not be frighting to too many people if not for the internet and 24/7 news cycle.

KJ1325 08-25-2023 06:51 PM

COVID is just another word for politics and power. Never got a shot. Never got a booster. Hardly ever wore a mask. Never got a flu shot. Grew up on a 1000 acre farm milking 100 head of dairy cows. I think I've been exposed to most diseases and chemicals around. And I'm still here.

Randall55 08-25-2023 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happinow (Post 2249598)
Simply to see how far the sheep will follow. I, for one will have nothing more to do with masks. Didn’t wear them back then…never once got Covid. Won’t wear them now. Haven’t you all learned anything? The masks are a lie, the shots are a lie and anything that comes into a Dr. Office is coded Covid. Why??? They get big money for Covid diagnosis. It’s not about you and your health…it’s about the money!

The morgues being full and dead bodies lining the streets were just mannequins?
Beds filled to capacity in hospitals were filled by actors? Conspiracy "just to make money" certainly cost them a lot of money. What would be the point?

asianthree 08-25-2023 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2249601)
That was a rumor and a fallacy that made the rounds early in the Pandemic. Hospital coding professionals said that NO attempt was made to boost COVID diagnosis.

You are holding a Sheldon sign right. Have 3 personal experiences with stage 4, no outside contact except delivery of hospice meds, no outside help needed, died at home with spouse physicians, death certificates “complications from Covid.”

Randall55 08-25-2023 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asianthree (Post 2249614)
You are holding a Sheldon sign right. Have 3 personal experiences with stage 4, no outside contact except delivery of hospice meds, no outside help needed, died at home with spouse physicians, death certificates “complications from Covid.”

I find this hard to believe. Why would a doctor jeapordize his license by falsifying a death certificate? Perhaps the patient did have Covid and it helped to progress his/her death? My mother had cancer. Yet, her death certificate states anemia as cause of death. Because, anemia is what CAUSED her death. She could have lived a little longer with cancer.

Kenswing 08-25-2023 07:56 PM

It never ends. :1rotfl:

JMintzer 08-25-2023 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2249539)
Thank you. Published and non-zero.

The CDC has another count on the Weekly Influenza Surveillance Report page. It shows a significant drop in 2021 (the year, not the season) with a return to normal in 2022. It is interesting that the counts on this page are significantly less than on other CDC pages. Perhaps more detailed reporting?

5K is still ridiculously low... It seems it would make a curios person wonder why...

JMintzer 08-25-2023 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2249540)
What I learned the last "go around" is that many ordinary people like to disregard advice by experts and scientists, while preferring advice from the dark web and conspiracy channels. (remember the ultra-violet light advice).

Of course I remember it. I brought it up and explained it's use to you at the time... UV light IS a method to "disinfect" the lungs...

Unfortunately, you didn't pay attention to what was clearly explained to you...

Here's some advice from some REAL scientists. I suggest you don't disregard it...

UVA Light Reduced Virus Loads in COVID-19 Patients

Endotracheal Application of Ultraviolet A Light in Critically Ill Patients with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2: A First-in-Human Study - PubMed

JMintzer 08-25-2023 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2249541)
Please tell us how wearing a K-95 or KN-95 is not effective?
Would you have open heart surgery if you knew the surgical team was operating on you without masks on?:ho:

Those surgical masks are to protect the patient against BACTERIA and to protect the surgeon against blood born pathogens, which are much, much larger in particle size than viruses...

Oh, and surgical teams don't wear N95 respirators...

JMintzer 08-25-2023 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2249558)
Nationally, with respect to COVID death rates, Florida had the 2nd most age-adjusted death rates among the states. TX. and other southern tier states had higher rates than Fl. And NY and Ca. had lower rates.

Incorrect. FL was ranked at 31 in "age adjusted" deaths. NY was 17 and CA was 38...

States Ranked by Age-Adjusted COVID Deaths

JMintzer 08-25-2023 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2249559)
I guess you learn something new, no matter how old you get. I had assumed that the reason for doctors wearing masks in surgery is so that THEY do not transmit germs/illnesses to the patient. AND they (some) would additionally wear face shields to prevent contamination from the patient.
Personally, I have no intention of wearing a mask IF it is not mandated somewhere that I have to go. I may have unknowingly had or carried the virus in the past couple years, but I am not going to change my activities or attire on the presumption that I may or may not be infected or carrying the virus. I have no problem with others wearing protection such as mask and gloves where ever they travel, in or out of their cars and in or outside of public places. When I was in Japan, many folks in Tokyo wore masks in the city. I didn't, but I am not going to pressure anyone else as to how they should or should not protect themselves.
I prefer to be the glass half full type of person, not a "the sky is falling" hysterical type. I do agree with those that believe that staying locked in their homes will protect them from catching any communicable diseases. I also believe that if you do not drive, you have less chance of having an traffic accident. If you do not fly, you will not die in a plane crash. But, I like to live dangerously. I have been known to step on the cracks in sidewalks and have even traveled in the back seat of a car without using the seat belt on more than one occasion.

That is PART of the reason, but not the ONLY reason.

You certainly don't want your surgeon coughing or sneezing into an open surgical site...

And don't get me started about dropping a "Junior Mint" in there!

bcsnave 08-25-2023 08:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2249647)
That is PART of the reason, but not the ONLY reason.

You certainly don't want your surgeon coughing or sneezing into an open surgical site...

And don't get me started about dropping a "Junior Mint" in there!


what????

JMintzer 08-25-2023 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall55 (Post 2249618)
I find this hard to believe. Why would a doctor jeapordize his license by falsifying a death certificate? Perhaps the patient did have Covid and it helped to progress his/her death? My mother had cancer. Yet, her death certificate states anemia as cause of death. Because, anemia is what CAUSED her death. She could have lived a little longer with cancer.

Because people dying WITH Covid, but not FROM Covid still had Covid listed as a co-morbidity in the pt's death...

It was proven to be true and states re-adjusted their numbers because it came t light...

asianthree 08-25-2023 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall55 (Post 2249618)
I find this hard to believe. Why would a doctor jeapordize his license by falsifying a death certificate? Perhaps the patient did have Covid and it helped to progress his/her death? My mother had cancer. Yet, her death certificate states anemia as cause of death. Because, anemia is what CAUSED her death. She could have lived a little longer with cancer.

We both spent 40 plus years, in medical. During Covid, Death certificates were being reviewed after initial diagnosis. One of our own doctors whose wife certificate went to review, was changed to Comp from covid. For 5 months never left their home taking on the role of hospice, on 20 acres of woods.

Near the end on the way to their only trip outside of house was to their cabin he had to stop to do CPR in parking lot. Cancer won, she was taken to local hospital, initially cause of death complications from stage four mets to lung, liver, brain. No post, taken immediately to be cremated.

No knowledge, certificate went to review, and changed. He and the entire medical staff were shocked that certificate could go to review and changed, once there was an initial cause of death.

But fun things happen during that 2 years we worked, some explained, some we just had to not question and let it go.

Randall55 08-25-2023 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asianthree (Post 2249661)
We both spent 40 plus years, in medical. During Covid, Death certificates were being reviewed after initial diagnosis. One of our own doctors whose wife certificate went to review, was changed to Comp from covid. For 5 months never left their home taking on the role of hospice, on 20 acres of woods.

Near the end on the way to their only trip outside of house was to their cabin he had to stop to do CPR in parking lot. Cancer won, she was taken to local hospital, initially cause of death complications from stage four mets to lung, liver, brain. No post, taken immediately to be cremated.

No knowledge, certificate went to review, and changed. He and the entire medical staff were shocked that certificate could go to review and changed, once there was an initial cause of death.

But fun things happen during that 2 years we worked, some explained, some we just had to not question and let it go.

Wow!

golfing eagles 08-26-2023 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maker (Post 2249509)
Surgeons do not wear "face diapers". I never said anything like that because it's a stupid statement. If that was your take-away, please re-read the post.

The primary purpose surgeons wear PPE to reduce the likelihood of getting biological contamination from the patient.

Masks are used to prevent transfer of airborne biological pathogens. That would be n95 or better. They wear face shields to prevent liquid splatters to their face where their mucous membranes are located, again to try to prevent contamination from blood and other infectious tissue.
They also wear gloves to prevent direct contact with infectious material and blood.

There are other higher levels of PPE worn when the risks demand better protection. Think of a patient with ebola, or who has an unknown toxic exposure. Also for researchers working on gain of function experiments with deadly toxic substances.

So wrong. We wear masks in surgery to protect the patients, not ourselves. Those paper masks do no more to protect the surgeon than it does to protect you in a grocery store. What it prevents is the surgeon drooling/spitting/coughing/sneezing into an open body cavity. Same with gloves, they protect the patient. Google the story of Semmelweis and you’ll understand

golfing eagles 08-26-2023 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2249541)
Please tell us how wearing a K-95 or KN-95 is not effective?
Would you have open heart surgery if you knew the surgical team was operating on you without masks on?:ho:

You can read, correct? So you did read the phrase “PAPER face mask in my post, NOT N-95???


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