[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

Actually, what I mean is why ruin one's quality of life on the basis of pure theory.

You mean you don't think there's any reliable knowledge that can be used to maintain or improve one's health? What must you think of those who have a PhD in nutrition? Those poor suckers must have wasted a lot of time and money on a degree that's worthless?

For every life-saving diet report, there is a study that invalidates it.

Can you give an example of a "life-saving diet report" and then "a study that invalidates it." Interesting, but I think perhaps you are talking about the normal process by which science is conducted. The earth was thought to be flat until someone came along and proved it to be round. Should we say that because the two ideas conflict with each other that we cannot be sure weather the earth is flat or round?

Not one thing that a human can digest (other than poison) is bad for you when consumed in moderation.

Is that your theory? Where did you get that information? And who decides what amount constitutes "moderation"? If I want to drink soft drinks, eat pastries, pizza, chips & dips, cookies, cakes, pies, processed meats etc. you can tell me just the right amount (moderation) that won't cause me any harm?

Most of the things that cause cancer in animals only do so in HUGE quantities.

Animal studies are usually a stepping stone to human studies. Animal studies are less expensive and provide an indication. Animal studies were never intended to be taken as conclusive proof of what will happen in humans.

Bad things are not universally bad and that is the fatal flaw in all of the medical advice. For example, my grandparents consumed red meat, starch and fried foods in prodigious quantities well into their 80s until they were killed in a car accident.

The purpose of a study is to indicate how various behaviors affect outcomes or risk. If a study indicates that red meat will raise one's risk for cancer or heart disease, it doesn't mean that everyone who eats meat will get cancer or heart disease.

If you drive down 466 at 100 miles per hour, you will likely raise your risk of getting into an accident. But it doesn't mean that you will get into an accident. Getting into an accident is not a certainty.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Is this one of those if the shoe fits ....? I don't think Gracie was talking about you entirely. I think it was a more generalization that if people become too obsessed with certain things, especially as we age, we might need some help.

Well, I think the question you have to ask is: Why did the idea of a mental condition even come to mind on this thread? And you reinforce it by suggesting that "people become too obsesed." So you characterize a person's interest in health as an obsession? That puts you in aggreement with Gracie.

Personally, I fit one of her categories -- I can't bear to throw things away. I try, will look at it and remember the meaning behind it and it stays. Definitely not healthy given I have one room stuffed with boxes of things I don't need. So, I guess she's assassinating my character as well. Good thing I don't take it personally, eh?

Sure, but this thread is not about anyones mental state. Is it?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

A New York appeals court on Tuesday ruled that the city Board of Health exceeded its legal authority and acted unconstitutionally when it tried to put a size limit on soft drinks served in city restaurants.

"The Board of Health overstepped the boundaries of its lawfully delegated authority," the court said in its decision.

Now, if I have this right, New York is banning cigarette sales to anyone under 21. Maybe that's what they should have done with soft drinks.

[DonH57]

All this talk about foods, holiday meals, and dietitary needs is making me hungery again. Why must I be tortured.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

If one wants to be health concious, then one can eat sparingly for a couple of days before Thanksgiving, so they induldge themselves on the holiday, but still try to eat in moderation.

The problem with that strategy is that you will slow down your metabolism by dieting before Thanksgiving. There's nothing wrong with a slow metabolism per se, it's actually a good thing. But then when you consume a large amount of calories on Thanksgiving, your body, thinking that it's starving, will soak it up and convert it to fat more quickly than it would otherwise.

This is my situation: I'm at my ideal weight with a slow metabolism. It's a good thing for one's health but only if it's practiced consistently.

One meal is not going to kill anyone....

Tell that to James Gandolfini. If he was at home no one would have known how much he ate before he died. But he was in a hotel, getting room service.
Everything he ordered was listed on his bill. Doctors evaluated it and said that, without a doubt, his excessive intake of food triggered his heart attack.

[senior citizen]

We have had several good neighbors over the past 43 years who were diagnosed as manic depressive or bi polar.

At first one might not have even realized as these five women and one guy were all the HIGH ENERGY happy go lucky type and life of the party.

The problem was, according to their family members and doctors, they never "came down" to a reasonable calm level.

They were usually flying high......making the rest of us look listless in comparison. Like a bunch of slugs.

They typically all had grand schemes and plans. When younger, it was just taken as "ambition" or what have you.

However, eventually, they were put on high doses of Xanax, Buspar, Lithium (heavy duty stuff), and various other drugs whose names escape me at the moment.......but all psychotropic drugs.

One of these ladies' husband was a physician. He told me , at one of our barbecues, how truly difficult it is to regulate these drugs per patient to get it to a correct level for whatever their mental disorder was. His lovely wife who had a great sense of humor became a total ZOMBIE on pharmaceutical drugs.

I had one childhood friend with Systemic Lupus, diagnosed at age 19 and put on heavy doses of Prednisone........she began having manic episodes and urges to commit suicide after going on the Prednisone....as did her older cousin (also diagnosed with Lupus and taking Prednisone). This was back in the 1960s when it probably wasn't as refined in dosing as nowadays. The cousin jumped to her death from the hospital window.
Very sad. All mental illness is very sad........no one should treat it lightly.

Most recently a neighbor's husband who always got depressed in the winter time with a seasonal type affliction, due to lack of sunshine.....finally agreed to see the doc. He was put on a heavy duty psychotropic drug which only made him "act out" against his wife.

She had to call five police cars to the home to handle him. He was taken to a mental facility and bounced around the state to various others before being diagnosed as manic depressive schizophrenic.......the doctors themselves admitted to the wife that "he had a bad reaction to the drugs we gave him"...........she was scared to death as he had attacked her, thus our police station sending five cars to the house.

When not on drugs, he is a big male pussycat. On drugs he becomes a beast.

Many people are just quirky or individualistic in their free thinking without having a mental illness per se. I've always believed in freedom of speech for everyone........and with that comes freedom of thought. If we all thought the same way, we'd be a bunch of robots or Stepford Wives.
Or even, Stepford Husbands. Now, that wouldn't do, would it?

Getting back to the drugs..........many young friends, in their twenties, children of our older friends........have been handed drugs to help their anxiety, as if they were candy...........they also were the high spirited type gals. They've had the common sense to come off all of these drugs.

My pet peeve are all the kids we read about being given Ritalin and other A.D.H.D. drugs in elementary school, which I've read can lead to heavy duty chronic recreational drug use as they get older..........

Times have surely changed......as far as a little pill for every malady under the sun.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

We have had several good neighbors over the past 43 years who were diagnosed as manic depressive or bi polar.

At first one might not have even realized as these five women and one guy were all the HIGH ENERGY happy go lucky type and life of the party.

The problem was, according to their family members and doctors, they never "came down" to a reasonable calm level.

They were usually flying high......making the rest of us look listless in comparison. Like a bunch of slugs.

They typically all had grand schemes and plans. When younger, it was just taken as "ambition" or what have you.

However, eventually, they were put on high doses of Xanax, Buspar, Lithium (heavy duty stuff), and various other drugs whose names escape me at the moment.......but all psychotropic drugs.

One of these ladies' husband was a physician. He told me , at one of our barbecues, how truly difficult it is to regulate these drugs per patient to get it to a correct level for whatever their mental disorder was. His lovely wife who had a great sense of humor became a total ZOMBIE on pharmaceutical drugs.

I had one childhood friend with Systemic Lupus, diagnosed at age 19 and put on heavy doses of Prednisone........she began having manic episodes and urges to commit suicide after going on the Prednisone....as did her older cousin (also diagnosed with Lupus and taking Prednisone). This was back in the 1960s when it probably wasn't as refined in dosing as nowadays. The cousin jumped to her death from the hospital window.
Very sad. All mental illness is very sad........no one should treat it lightly.

Most recently a neighbor's husband who always got depressed in the winter time with a seasonal type affliction, due to lack of sunshine.....finally agreed to see the doc. He was put on a heavy duty psychotropic drug which only made him "act out" against his wife.

She had to call five police cars to the home to handle him. He was taken to a mental facility and bounced around the state to various others before being diagnosed as manic depressive schizophrenic.......the doctors themselves admitted to the wife that "he had a bad reaction to the drugs we gave him"...........she was scared to death as he had attacked her, thus our police station sending five cars to the house.

When not on drugs, he is a big male pussycat. On drugs he becomes a beast.

Many people are just quirky or individualistic in their free thinking without having a mental illness per se. I've always believed in freedom of speech for everyone........and with that comes freedom of thought. If we all thought the same way, we'd be a bunch of robots or Stepford Wives.
Or even, Stepford Husbands. Now, that wouldn't do, would it?

Getting back to the drugs..........many young friends, in their twenties, children of our older friends........have been handed drugs to help their anxiety, as if they were candy...........they also were the high spirited type gals. They've had the common sense to come off all of these drugs.

My pet peeve are all the kids we read about being given Ritalin and other A.D.H.D. drugs in elementary school, which I've read can lead to heavy duty chronic recreational drug use as they get older..........

Times have surely changed......as far as a little pill for every malady under the sun.

Having an anxiety disorder is very common and frequently follows a bout with a life threatening illness. Having Schizophrenia, Bi Polar disorder or being Manic Depressive is much more uncommon. In fact none of them has any real connection with mild anxiety or depression.

Sertraline is one of the most widely prescribed medications in the world. And although I think that some of the A.D.D. drugs are over prescribed for children I have not read any valid studies that indicate that their use causes them to use recreational drugs later in life.

OCD is very common indeed and in fact if a lopsided picture makes you want to correct it, you may have a touch.

Medication for anxiety is not for the weak in character, it is for anyone who has faced some overwhelming events, usually.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Village PL, I know you really care about people and want to try to help us have a healthier life. I know you have the best of intentions and that you worry a lot about the obesity rate in adults.

But I think you need to remember that most members of this website are highly intelligent people, and most are over the age of fifty. We've worked hard all our lives to enjoy our Golden Years. And yes, we'd all like to be healthy of course. But we'd also like to enjoy our final lap of the race.

At this stage of life, most of us have probably made our lifestyle choices. We've decided how physically active we want to be, the sports or exercise classes with which we want to be involved. We know what weight we want to maintain. And some of us have decided to just enjoy fresh food every day while socializing with friends, eating in moderation of course. Lots of us enjoy a drink, or an occasional glass of wine.

I agree that most members of this website are highly intelligent people. No doubt about it. But intelligent people don't always eat healthy diets. Why is that? Maybe there's more to it than just being intelligent. Someone might be an intelligent lawyer, doctor, teacher, accountant etc., but not knowledgeable about healthy eating.

I'm sure I could come up with a list of highly intelligent people who are obese. I know I could. So I'm not sure I get your point.

I applaud your efforts to educate and inform us. But I think most of us have already decided what type of lifestyle we want to pursue.

Then why is there so much interest in this thread? Why are people telling me about all the gravy they consume. Is that intelligent? Why do some say that nothing about health can be proved? That everything is just a theory? What about those who call for moderation? What is moderation? One pizza per week or one pizza per month? Moderation is whatever each individual says it is and therefore it's meaningless. Where's the intelligence?

[graciegirl]

...

[CFrance]

VPL, I think you would serve the population better if you took your message to the youth and their parents. Not a whole lot of us folks here on TOTV are going to change our habits no matter how many points you validate.

The fatty liver disease thing, for instance--take that to the parents of the children and encourage them to change their children's diet. The grandparents of the children are pretty much powerless to do anything about it.

I know you will have a comeback for my opinion, but there it is anyway.

And by the way, were you eating sugar the last couple of weeks? I really enjoyed your humor.

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I agree that most members of this website are highly intelligent people. No doubt about it. But intelligent people don't always eat healthy diets. Why is that? Maybe there's more to it than just being intelligent. Someone might be an intelligent lawyer, doctor, teacher, accountant etc., but not knowledgeable about healthy eating.

I'm sure I could come up with a list of highly intelligent people who are obese. I know I could. So I'm not sure I get your point.



Then why is there so much interest in this thread? Why are people telling me about all the gravy they consume. Is that intelligent? Why do some say that nothing about health can be proved? That everything is just a theory? What about those who call for moderation? What is moderation? One pizza per week or one pizza per month? Moderation is whatever each individual says it is and therefore it's meaningless. Where's the intelligence?

If you have not gotten the message yet, mature successful adults do not like to be preached at regardless of whether it is nutrition, religion or lifestyle. You need to come across less arrogant and condescending and come to realize that the book from which you preach was written by individuals with personal opinions and all too often, personal agendae. For every tit there is a tat. and oh, by the way if you check your backyard and you can't find your goat, I've got it!


Now chill and let everybody enjoy their Thanksgiving Feast.

[jblum315]

To Villages PL: the interest in this thread is mainly that people want you to stop preaching your "healthy eating" sermon. Tired of hearing it. Take a note from Mark Bittman who presents healthy food in unorthodox recipes that are appealing and delicious. He also occasionally writes about fried food (O my god). If you don't understand moderation then just keep quiet.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Having an anxiety disorder is very common and frequently follows a bout with a life threatening illness. Having Schizophrenia, Bi Polar disorder or being Manic Depressive is much more uncommon. In fact none of them has any real connection with mild anxiety or depression.

Sertraline is one of the most widely prescribed medications in the world. And although I think that some of the A.D.D. drugs are over prescribed for children I have not read any valid studies that indicate that their use causes them to use recreational drugs later in life.

OCD is very common indeed and in fact if a lopsided picture makes you want to correct it, you may have a touch.

Medication for anxiety is not for the weak in character, it is for anyone who has faced some overwhelming events, usually.

Are we over medicating our children?
Click on this link to read at leisure......
Ritalin (methylphenidate) Side Effects and Warnings


Depression:
Manic Depression says it all. Sometimes up; sometimes down.
Wild mood fluctuations. The manic side may be perceived as "life of the party"; energetic always on the go........until the depressive side hits...
They are then so depressed they do not want to get out of bed.

Schizophrenia, Manic Depression and Bi Polar Disorder may not be common where you are, but they certainly are common in our town.
Perhaps it is just discussed more up here as we live in a neighborhood with doctors and nurses as friends and neighbors........our town/neighborhood hospital is affiliated with Dartmouth University's hospital.

We've seen adult sons of neighbors on a lifetime of Lithium and Haldol for their schizophrenia and the cross their parents had to bear.

We've seen young moms up and down with their Bi Polar symptoms....
Grand schemes and things that average people get exhausted just listening to.....as with manic depression.

We've seen young people with anxiety handed out meds like they were candy.......until they finally just took the matter into their own hands and flushed them down the toilet.

Our society is over medicated.........and all of these drugs have side effects............just as processed foods have side effects if consumed in quantity.......or habitually.........

I know what Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is. I know grandparents whose grandchildren were put on drugs for that........after "cutting" themselves.......and young moms who clean constantly.......and so on and so forth. I also know people who have "washed their money" or are constantly washing their hands.......

Believe me, we have interesting dialogue and conversations...........

Must be the weather up here (or something in the water).........
Actually, it is snowing out now............

We just skyped with our littlest grandbabies and what a joy to see such active little girls with energy and love to spare.......they recognize us on the video cam and want to show us all of their toys....."Grandma", "Grandpa".........that's our drug of choice. Pure joy and happiness.

There is no alternative for us....as everyone we have witnessed who has been put on meds becomes more "unnatural" than whatever anxiety disorder they initially exhibited. The meds do a number on them.

It's not a perfect science, to say the least.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Are we over medicating our children?
Click on this link to read at leisure......
Ritalin (methylphenidate) Side Effects and Warnings


Depression:
Manic Depression says it all. Sometimes up; sometimes down.
Wild mood fluctuations. The manic side may be perceived as "life of the party"; energetic always on the go........until the depressive side hits...
They are then so depressed they do not want to get out of bed.

Schizophrenia, Manic Depression and Bi Polar Disorder may not be common where you are, but they certainly are common in our town.
Perhaps it is just discussed more up here as we live in a neighborhood with doctors and nurses as friends and neighbors........our town/neighborhood hospital is affiliated with Dartmouth University's hospital.

We've seen adult sons of neighbors on a lifetime of Lithium and Haldol for their schizophrenia and the cross their parents had to bear.

We've seen young moms up and down with their Bi Polar symptoms....
Grand schemes and things that average people get exhausted just listening to.....as with manic depression.

We've seen young people with anxiety handed out meds like they were candy.......until they finally just took the matter into their own hands and flushed them down the toilet.

Our society is over medicated.........and all of these drugs have side effects............just as processed foods have side effects if consumed in quantity.......or habitually.........

I know what Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is. I know grandparents whose grandchildren were put on drugs for that........after "cutting" themselves.......and young moms who clean constantly.......and so on and so forth. I also know people who have "washed their money" or are constantly washing their hands.......

Believe me, we have interesting dialogue and conversations...........

Must be the weather up here (or something in the water).........
Actually, it is snowing out now............

We just skyped with our littlest grandbabies and what a joy to see such active little girls with energy and love to spare.......they recognize us on the video cam and want to show us all of their toys....."Grandma", "Grandpa".........that's our drug of choice. Pure joy and happiness.

There is no alternative for us....as everyone we have witnessed who has been put on meds becomes more "unnatural" than whatever anxiety disorder they initially exhibited. The meds do a number on them.

It's not a perfect science, to say the least.

I don't know what to say. Where is RSHoffer when you need him? He was our go to psychiatrist on this forum.