[Villages PL]

You know how loss of smell can be an early sign of Alzheimer's but not all "loss of smell" indicates a person will develop Alzheimer's. Forgetfulness and confusion can be an early sign but it doesn't always mean the person has Alzheimer's. One symptom by itself doesn't mean that much but if they can put many symptoms together, it might be more meaningful.

How about personality traits? I've known people who get upset or even angry if you cause them to think about something they are not accustomed to thinking about. It's as if "thinking hurts" and they get mad at you if you make them do it.

Could this be an early sign of Alzheimer's?

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

You know how loss of smell can be an early sign of Alzheimer's but not all "loss of smell" indicates a person will develop Alzheimer's. Forgetfulness and confusion can be an early sign but it doesn't always mean the person has Alzheimer's. One symptom by itself doesn't mean that much but if they can put many symptoms together, it might be more meaningful.

How about personality traits? I've known people who get upset or even angry if you cause them to think about something they are not accustomed to thinking about. It's as if "thinking hurts" and they get mad at you if you make them do it.

Could this be an early sign of Alzheimer's?

I wonder why you would ask this question to people who are not specialists in this field. Anyone, including me, hazarding an opinion would not contribute to overall knowledge of this subject, and you've addressed the question to everyone, not health professionals.

[gerryann]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

I wonder why you would ask this question to people who are not specialists in this field. Anyone, including me, hazarding an opinion would not contribute to overall knowledge of this subject, and you've addressed the question to everyone, not health professionals.

I don't think the OP is posting this for professionals. A lot of folks are dealing with loved ones who have this dreadful disease.

I often wonder about the noises and movements. Does anyone else see this in Alzheimer's? What I mean is......mouth noises...sucking, chewing on nothing. Took him to dentist to be sure it's nothing medical......also, obsession with skin...scratching, picking, etc. Dermatologist can't find anything.
This is all new behavior.

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by gerryann

I don't think the OP is posting this for professionals. A lot of folks are dealing with loved ones who have this dreadful disease.

I often wonder about the noises and movements. Does anyone else see this in Alzheimer's? What I mean is......mouth noises...sucking, chewing on nothing. Took him to dentist to be sure it's nothing medical......also, obsession with skin...scratching, picking, etc. Dermatologist can't find anything.
This is all new behavior.

OP is asking if " people who get upset or even angry if you cause them to think about something they are not accustomed to thinking about. It's as if "thinking hurts" and they get mad at you if you make them do it. Could this be an early sign of Alzheimer's?"
My point is if someone answers "yes, I think this is an early sign of Alzheimers" or if they answer "no, I don't think this is an early sign of Alzheimers", we haven't moved our knowledge of the subject forward one inch, because what someone thinks about the subject is inconsequential unless they have specialized knowledge of the subject. It sounds as if you're dealing with someone who has this tragic disease right now. If you are, you have my thoughts and prayers. If I, who knows very little about the disease were to say to you that I think the noises and movements you are seeing is because of Alzheimers, I wouldn't have helped you at all because I am not qualified to answer the question, and my speculations could do as much harm as good.

[gerryann]

I wasn't aware that permission was needed to ask a question about something that a lot of folks may be going through. If a subject is not something that you feel you are interested in, why do you open it?

Nobody is asking for a professional opinion.....maybe just a little insight into something they are dealing with.

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by gerryann

I wasn't aware that permission was needed to ask a question about something that a lot of folks may be going through. If a subject is not something that you feel you are interested in, why do you open it?

Nobody is asking for a professional opinion.....maybe just a little insight into something they are dealing with.

No one needs my permission, nor do I need anyones permission to comment. Just tell me what you think voicing an opinion to OP's original question will accomplish. It wasn't about permission, it was about unqualified people making guesses about a hypothetical question. At some point it's just verbal masturbation. If I were to say "yes, people who get angry when you force them to think about something different shows they have Alzheimers" what does my statement mean. Do we know if that person has had a good nights sleep? Does that person have an injury? Did they fight with a loved one and are upset about something we don't know about? It was an foolish question and I'm just trying to point that out as politely as possible. If the question was put the opposite way, would it make any more sense? If a person becomes angry (etc, etc) does it mean he does not have Alzheimers. Or does it mean he has a Urinary Tract Infection, or a headache, or a brain tumor, or anyone of a thousand different possible causes. Now can you see how foolish the question is? Here would be a much better thought out question. "If a person gets angry often for what appears to be no reason, should that person see a doctor".

[gerryann]

Yup. Carry on......

[B767drvr]

Read this book and couldn't put it down. Reads like a spy novel, but it's unfortunately non-fiction and extremely well documented. Scary to contemplate how widespread this (Mad Cow Disease) might be. Google "cattle mutilation" and you'll quickly discover >10,000 cattle surgically dissected (by an unknown agency) for the "speculated" purpose of tracking the spread of this disease across America.



Brain Trust: The Hidden Connection Between Mad Cow and Misdiagnosed Alzheimer's Disease

Colm A. Kelleher


Below is a copied review of the book that gives a great oversight.


>>
As a neurologist, I found it frightening
November 21, 2004
By Stephen Wong


As a trained neurologist working at a school of medicine, I thought I had a fairly good understanding of BSE and its human counterpart, nvCJD. But clinical knowledge is only one piece of the puzzle.

Drawing upon epidemiologic, forensic, political, medical, scientific, and historical sources, the author has provided a truly chilling account of the importation of prion disease samples from the small cannabalistic Fore tribe in New Guinea for U.S. animal experimentation in the 1950's and '60's, with credible links to the current epidemic of animal prion disease in North America (CWD or chronic wasting disease, TME or transmissible mink encephalopathy, and BSE), as well as the current epidemic of Alzheimer's disease in developed countries (i.e., those eating mass-produced livestock). The author also speculates that the cattle mutiliations in North America in the past few decades may have been programs designed for the surveillance of prions within the nation's food supply.

Some disturbing points made in the book are:

1) 5 - 13% of Alzheimer's Disease (AD) cases that go to autopsy at university medical centers is actually misdiagnosed sporadic CJD (ref: Manuelidis, J. Pathology 1989), alarming since AD is so common and on the rise.
2) BSE, when transmitted to mice, cause neuropathological findings of nvCJD, but surprisingly, may also cause changes indistinguishable from sporadic CJD (ref: Collinge, EMBO Journal 2002 & Science 11/04)... in combination with the above, the implication is that a significant proportion of clinical AD may be due to BSE.
3) CWD (chronic wasting disease), a prion disease of wild animals such as deer and elk, has been spreading rapidly within the past few decades in North America.
4) If infected animals graze on a pasture, that pasture remains infectious to new animals for years... meaning that the disease will be difficult to contain, to say the least.
5) The "species barrier" is weaker than it sounds, i.e., most mammals and birds can contract it from each other.

Working in a complex medical system, it's all too familiar to me the fact that families do not pursue post-mortems, diagnoses are not considered, and tests are never 100% reliable. The extra pecautions and higher risk are hindrances to autopsying a patient clinically diagnosed with CJD. Knowing the foibles of human nature, it is almost certain that enormous economic incentives for cattle ranchers and various government agencies have contributed to underreporting and underestimation the potential severity of the problem... which is a shame given that we have the benefit of having observed the same public health fiasco in the UK.

It is common dogma that sporadic CJD is not related to nvCJD or BSE, but that statement may be mistaken in light of more current research such as the type cited in the book. I hope that if awareness is promoted via reading this book, suspicion and surveillance for the disease among veterinarians and physicians will increase, and a more accurate picture of the situation will be revealed.

As for the book itself, it appears well-researched with references appearing in a detailed appendix. The strength of the work is how the seamless argument is woven together in a highly readable fashion, making it accessible to all. It reads like a first-rate thriller and is hard to put down. I read it in two sittings over a weekend.

<<

[graciegirl]

If you really want to know some of the early signs of Alzheimers, you need only google. "The early signs of Alzheimers." The Alzheimers Association has collected all known facts about the disease.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by gerryann

I don't think the OP is posting this for professionals. A lot of folks are dealing with loved ones who have this dreadful disease.

I often wonder about the noises and movements. Does anyone else see this in Alzheimer's? What I mean is......mouth noises...sucking, chewing on nothing. Took him to dentist to be sure it's nothing medical......also, obsession with skin...scratching, picking, etc. Dermatologist can't find anything.
This is all new behavior.

Gerry. I am not a medical person. The only time I have had any dealings with involuntary facial movements was when our daughter Helene started her first Chemo several years ago and was given a tranquilizer, phenothiazine, as is generally done, and it caused drug induced Parkinsons that took several weeks to go away. Some people react to certain drugs in different ways.


When I googled chewing movements I came up with this for what it is worth.


Dystonia

Dystonia is the third most common movement disorder, after essential tremor and Parkinson's disease. It is characterized by sustained co-contractions of opposing muscle groups that cause twisting or repetitive movements and abnormal postures. Dystonia is classified according to the number of muscle groups affected. It may be may be focal and limited to one area (such as the face, neck, larynx/vocal cords, or limbs), or it may be generalized and affect the whole body. These conditions can be both painful and debilitating. Aside from medications, dystonias are frequently treated with Botox injections. Patients with regional and generalized dystonias and normal MRI scans may benefit from deep brain stimulation therapy. The following are examples of focal dystonias:

• Blepharospasm is marked by involuntary contraction of the eyelid muscles. Symptoms may range from intermittent, increased frequency of blinking to constant, painful eye closure leading to functional blindness.
• Oromandibular dystonia is characterized by forceful contractions of the lower face causing the mouth to open or close. Chewing and unusual tongue movements may also occur.
• Laryngeal dystonia or spasmodic dysphonia is due to abnormal contraction of muscles in the voice box producing changes in the voice. Patients may have a strained-strangled quality to their voice or in some cases a whispering/breathy quality .
• Cervical dystonia (CD) or spasmodic torticollis is marked by muscle spasms of the head and neck may be painful and cause the neck to twist into unusual positions or postures.
• Writer’s cramp and musician’s cramp is a task-specific dystonia, meaning that it only occurs when performing certain tasks. Writer’s cramp is a contraction of hand and/or arm muscles that happens only when a patient is writing. It does not occur in other situations, such as when a patient is typing or eating. Musician’s cramp occurs only when a musician plays his/her instrument. For example, pianists may experience cramping of their hands when playing, while brass players may have cramping or contractions of their mouth muscles.

<Back to Top>
Hemifacial Spasm

Hemifacial spasm (HFS) is characterized by involuntary contraction of facial muscles. HFS usually occurs only on one side of the face. Like blepharospasm, the frequency of contractions in hemifacial spasm may range from intermittent to frequent and constant. The unilateral blepharospasm of HFS may be particularly troublesome, interfering with routine tasks such as driving. In addition to medication, patients may respond well to treatment with Botox. HFS may be due to vascular compression of the nerves going to the muscles of the face. For these patients, surgical decompression may result in long-lasting improvement of symptoms.


Gerry, I think the proper doctor to consult after your primary care giver would be a neurologist. As I say. I am not a medical person in any way shape or form.


But I know what worry is.

[gerryann]

Thanks Gracie, your information is informative. Thanks for posting.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

I wonder why you would ask this question to people who are not specialists in this field. Anyone, including me, hazarding an opinion would not contribute to overall knowledge of this subject, and you've addressed the question to everyone, not health professionals.

I was the care giver for my father who had Alzheimer's and I did extensive research on this subject. I myself go for a memory test yearly and I have never heard of any test for mental characteristics. How would any doctor even go about giving such a test? This is something a family member might notice over a long period of time, perhaps over several decades.

I had to think back over several decades to the way my father would react to various subjects. This is how one would develop a hypothesis. One would begin by gathering similar observations of others.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by gerryann

I don't think the OP is posting this for professionals. A lot of folks are dealing with loved ones who have this dreadful disease.

I often wonder about the noises and movements. Does anyone else see this in Alzheimer's? What I mean is......mouth noises...sucking, chewing on nothing. Took him to dentist to be sure it's nothing medical......also, obsession with skin...scratching, picking, etc. Dermatologist can't find anything.
This is all new behavior.

You are correct; I wasn't posting for professionals. This is a "Medical and Health Discussion" board. It's for anyone who's interested in discussion and you don't have to be a professional.

I'm fairly certain that no testing is being done for mental characteristics that would be noticeable over one's lifetime. Although, there are many Alzheimer's research centers across the country so you never know for sure.

Once someone is diagnosed with dementia, I wouldn't be surprised at any unusual behavior. If someone makes unusual sounds or scratching as you indicated, that could very well be a symptom of dementia. But, just the same, it's not a bad idea to have it checked out by a doctor.

My father didn't do any of that but had other strange behaviors.

My question would be: How did the person behave over many decades prior to being diagnosed with dementia? Were they frequently argumentative? Frequently suspicious? Frequently inflexible in their thinking?

[OBXNana]

We also cared for my mother for several years and she then had to go to a facility. We met an amazing man that was a professor at Penn State (MD and Ph.D.), that had a wife in the facility. She had early onset Alzheimer's at 56 and by the time we met her, she was in her mid 60's. She also had been a professor at Penn State and ran both the New York and Boston Marathons. The general population may say people diagnosed with any form of dementia frequently don't remain active mentally and/or physically.

I would see her husband daily and at the end of his visit he would be typing on his lap top. He was compiling data for a research study concerning the patients in this 60 person facility. He had permission from the majority of the family's. He was also working in a facility that was not a private pay. The early findings were many of the generic symptoms of Alzheimer's may not be accurate. I wish I had remained in touch to see where this extensive research went, but lost track of him.

I personally appreciate graciegirl for posting an accurate site on what is KNOWN at this TIME. I have thrown my name and address into that organization to be a part of any study they feel will be helpful for future generations. Thus far, I have not be called upon, but actively follow what is being researched. I also agree with Barry concerning the possibility of symptoms being thrown out for any disease that can mimic something totally different. Self diagnosing can be a bad thing and only a discussion of symptoms with your family physician can be an accurate diagnosis.

As with any forum, this is the general population with the majority of the members stating their opinions. As long as everyone keeps in mind the symptoms being listed were witnessed with a loved one or friend and may or may not be a precursor for any specific disease.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

If you really want to know some of the early signs of Alzheimers, you need only google. "The early signs of Alzheimers." The Alzheimers Association has collected all known facts about the disease.

It wasn't my intention to teach what all the early signs of Alzheimer's are. The ten early warning signs are very basic and good but were not meant to be part of the scope of this thread. No harm done if people were not aware of them and like to read them.

My point was to look for something earlier than those 10 early warning signs that are not all that early, in my opinion.

As an example, here's one possibility: When I was 9 years old I remember an incident where my aunt was complaining to everyone in the family that her husband was cheating on her. No one ever believed it for a minute because, well, it was just absurd. Whenever anyone asked her how she knew he was cheating, she would say: "Oh, I know! He can't fool me, I see the way he looks at women when we go out." That's it. That's all she had and she was telling everyone who would listen that he was cheating on her.

No one ever suspected it might be an early warning sign of dementia. 10 or more years passed before she was diagnosed with dementia. And guess who took care of her every need? Her husband who she accused of cheating. She got to the point where she couldn't do anything for herself and he would wash her, dress her, put her in her wheel chair and feed her. And he would talk to her as if she might be in there, somewhere, listening.

So, I think profound unfounded-suspicion, such as she had, might be an early warning sign, not the everyday suspicions that people normally have. A little suspicion can be a healthy thing when you go shopping for a used car, for example.