[shrink]

Originally Posted by sandybill2

I worked in Cardiology office for 30+ years---started out assisting and at the time of my retirement was the Business Office Manager. The charge you saw for 174.00 for treadmill test that you said you didn't actually have was probably for supplies. When billing is done--each and every component of the test has a separate CPT code (this is a universal code that tells the insurance companies what is being billed) I am guessing that this code and charge was probably for supplies---maybe even the Nuclear infusion that was done. Can't be sure but I would imagine if you went to the Cardiology office for a Cardiostress test the charge would be more than 174.00.

Thanks for writing and I appreciate your expertise. The CPT code was 93015, "Cardio treadmill stress test w/EKG, with MD" (which I never had). The "supplies" that you mentioned: Myocardial perfusion imaging ($982.00), Injection, regadenoson ($408.00) and Technetium tc-99m sestamibi, DX, study dose ($944.00) referenced the thallium stress test, which was the only stress test I had. I'm not a medical person, but I'm getting there!

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by shrink

I am reluctant to post a specific name on a public forum. I simply advise that if it seems like too many tests are being run, if you are being told you need a nuclear stress test if in fact you are capable of doing a treadmill test, if the office seems to run like an assembly line, if you overhear one patient after another being scheduled for angiograms, if you get bills which do not reflect what was actually done, etc., steer clear.

Let me explain something. My wife is a very qualified medical professional. Most doctors today will put you through lots of tests. Many tests that you cannot understand why they are doing it and what it has to do with your case. It is not fraud. They are protecting THEMSELVES!!!

Unfortunately in today's world doctors are being sued at the drop of a hat. And when that case gets into court the doctor and the attending nurses and assistants are going to be grilled over and over and over again as to why this test or that test was not run. And then when the lawyer finds some little test that wasn't run because the doctor didn't feel you needed that test, he's going to be sued for millions of dollars!!

No..maybe you won't sue the doctor, but hundreds of others are going to try because they have been misled that they have been "injured" by neglect and that they can now hit the lottery off this doctor or provider's misfortune. Have you looked at any TV (not the villages) commercials these days? There are lawyers by the boat-load offering to "get you substantial money" from some doctor who didn't perform some test, which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare.

Most extra tests have nothing to do with fraud. It's about your doctor keeping his license to be able to save your life!!!

[shrink]

Originally Posted by Mack184

Let me explain something. My wife is a very qualified medical professional. Most doctors today will put you through lots of tests. Many tests that you cannot understand why they are doing it and what it has to do with your case. It is not fraud. They are protecting THEMSELVES!!!

Unfortunately in today's world doctors are being sued at the drop of a hat. And when that case gets into court the doctor and the attending nurses and assistants are going to be grilled over and over and over again as to why this test or that test was not run. And then when the lawyer finds some little test that wasn't run because the doctor didn't feel you needed that test, he's going to be sued for millions of dollars!!

No..maybe you won't sue the doctor, but hundreds of others are going to try because they have been misled that they have been "injured" by neglect and that they can now hit the lottery off this doctor or provider's misfortune. Have you looked at any TV (not the villages) commercials these days? There are lawyers by the boat-load offering to "get you substantial money" from some doctor who didn't perform some test, which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare.

Most extra tests have nothing to do with fraud. It's about your doctor keeping his license to be able to save your life!!!

That's an interesting perspective, and I'll think that over. Thanks for sharing.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Mack184

Let me explain something. My wife is a very qualified medical professional. Most doctors today will put you through lots of tests. Many tests that you cannot understand why they are doing it and what it has to do with your case. It is not fraud. They are protecting THEMSELVES!!!

Unfortunately in today's world doctors are being sued at the drop of a hat. And when that case gets into court the doctor and the attending nurses and assistants are going to be grilled over and over and over again as to why this test or that test was not run. And then when the lawyer finds some little test that wasn't run because the doctor didn't feel you needed that test, he's going to be sued for millions of dollars!!

No..maybe you won't sue the doctor, but hundreds of others are going to try because they have been misled that they have been "injured" by neglect and that they can now hit the lottery off this doctor or provider's misfortune. Have you looked at any TV (not the villages) commercials these days? There are lawyers by the boat-load offering to "get you substantial money" from some doctor who didn't perform some test, which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare.

Most extra tests have nothing to do with fraud. It's about your doctor keeping his license to be able to save your life!!!

All the more reason for us to educate ourselves so we can refuse these unnecessary tests. Many years ago I did refuse an expensive moving picture xray of my neck. I had some difficulty swallowing which was due to heat stress. It was gradually getting better (it's a long story) but the doctor recommended this test to rule out cancer. I reasoned that if it was cancer, it would have gotten worse over time, not better. So I refused the test.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Mack184

Let me explain something. My wife is a very qualified medical professional. Most doctors today will put you through lots of tests. Many tests that you cannot understand why they are doing it and what it has to do with your case. It is not fraud. They are protecting THEMSELVES!!!

Unfortunately in today's world doctors are being sued at the drop of a hat. And when that case gets into court the doctor and the attending nurses and assistants are going to be grilled over and over and over again as to why this test or that test was not run. And then when the lawyer finds some little test that wasn't run because the doctor didn't feel you needed that test, he's going to be sued for millions of dollars!!

No..maybe you won't sue the doctor, but hundreds of others are going to try because they have been misled that they have been "injured" by neglect and that they can now hit the lottery off this doctor or provider's misfortune. Have you looked at any TV (not the villages) commercials these days? There are lawyers by the boat-load offering to "get you substantial money" from some doctor who didn't perform some test, which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare.

Most extra tests have nothing to do with fraud. It's about your doctor keeping his license to be able to save your life!!!

Mack: You are spot on. Yet, you have the government and insurance companies making decisions on what test, operations a doctor can conduct. Does that make sense? Neither the governemnt or an insurance comapny should get between you and your doctor. if the government or an insurance comapny believes that their are abuses then they have the tools to investigate.

Finally "he who doctors himself has a fool for a patient

[wendyquat]

Shrink, I sent you a pm.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Mack184

Let me explain something. My wife is a very qualified medical professional. Most doctors today will put you through lots of tests. Many tests that you cannot understand why they are doing it and what it has to do with your case. It is not fraud. They are protecting THEMSELVES!!!

The owner/manager of the new Villages Clinics has promised to save money by not doing ANY unnecessary testing. And this is supposed to be the result of employing better doctors.

How does this square with your suggestion that doctors need to give lots of tests to protect themselves?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Finally "he who doctors himself has a fool for a patient

Those who can't think for themselves should at least go for a second opinion.

[OurHappyHome]

The problem you are all missing is the meaning of the word necessary. We do our best to diagnose and treat patients. Obviously, this is how we make a living. But, I found that you do make more money by being the best doctor possible and treating your patients the same way you would treat another physician, i.e. an educated consumer.

That being said, this is not making a cake where there is an exact recipe. For example, my neighbor just went to the hospital with symptoms and a history that would force a good doctor to do a heart work up. That would include labs (done many times over 3 days) and a stress test. All this to rule out something he didn't have.

In some hospitals he also would have had to do an angiogram. This is an invasive procedure, and that may have been the time for the patient to ask himself if it is 'really' needed. The question are: do you do the test to be sure or safe? In addition, do you do it to protect against malpractice if something is there that could be missed?

This is an art and a science, and as doctors... we make EDUCATED guesses. I am not speaking to what this doctor ( the one in the thread ) did or should have done. I can just tell you that most doctors don't spend 10 plus years or 75 plus hour weeks with little or no pay, motivated by ripping people off.

Mostly they want to help people. I know there are a few bad apples. But maybe this thread could have started with: 'Do you think these tests A,B, and C are excessive for these symptoms?' 'What tests have your doctor done for this?'... That might have opened a more useful dialog.

P.S. Sorry for any typos as I did this on my iPhone.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

The problem you are all missing is the meaning of the word necessary. We do our best to diagnose and treat patients. Obviously, this is how we make a living. But, I found that you do make more money by being the best doctor possible and treating your patients the same way you would treat another physician, i.e. an educated consumer.

That being said, this is not making a cake where there is an exact recipe. For example, my neighbor just went to the hospital with symptoms and a history that would force a good doctor to do a heart work up. That would include labs (done many times over 3 days) and a stress test. All this to rule out something he didn't have.

In some hospitals he also would have had to do an angiogram. This is an invasive procedure, and that may have been the time for the patient to ask himself if it is 'really' needed. The question are: do you do the test to be sure or safe? In addition, do you do it to protect against malpractice if something is there that could be missed?

This is an art and a science, and as doctors... we make EDUCATED guesses. I am not speaking to what this doctor ( the one in the thread ) did or should have done. I can just tell you that most doctors don't spend 10 plus years or 75 plus hour weeks with little or no pay, motivated by ripping people off.

Mostly they want to help people. I know there are a few bad apples. But maybe this thread could have started with: 'Do you think these tests A,B, and C are excessive for these symptoms?' 'What tests have your doctor done for this?'... That might have opened a more useful dialog.

P.S. Sorry for any typos as I did this on my iPhone.

Thank you!!!

(And you did a fine job using your phone.)

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The owner/manager of the new Villages Clinics has promised to save money by not doing ANY unnecessary testing. And this is supposed to be the result of employing better doctors.

How does this square with your suggestion that doctors need to give lots of tests to protect themselves?

What do you mean how does it square? What is his definition of unnecessary? What is his definition of better doctors? Did they come from better medical schools? Did they have excellent patient records? Does he pay them more? My wife has walked in to see a patient and the patient, or someone with them flips open a notebook and starts writing things down. When my wife askes what they are writing she has been known to get answers such as "This is just in case we decide to sue you later". Again, define unnecessary.

[ssmith]

Agree with your post and the the good doctors post. Unfortunatley dueto the legal system and the law suits, doctors have to order tests. I am an RN in a large Cardiology office up north.

Know this, you also have the right to refuse a test. I am glad that nothing was wrong with you but most Americans do have build up in their arteries due to our lifestyle and diet and with other factors like smoking, family history, etc it is warranted to check it out.

I would call the billing dept. at the office so they would explain the billing that was done.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Mack184

There are lawyers by the boat-load offering to "get you substantial money" from some doctor who didn't perform some test, which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare.

Again, define unnecessary.

I think you defined unnecessary tests above. In your own words, "....some test[s], which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare."

[PaPaLarry]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

All heart patients should be warry of all heart doctors, in my opinion. Most of them (again my opinion) will never give the option of lifestyle changes to reverse coronary artery disease. They are in business to make money and placing stints or giving by pass surgery pays a heck of a lot more than giving someone a stern warning and a diet/exercise plan.

I don't agree with that. I go to Florida Heart & Vascular and really appreciate the way my Heart Doctor cares. In fact, I like going through tests that Doctor recommends, when its needed, to determine questions that arise. Because of Doctor and tests, I now see Heart Doctor once a year. Having a good heart mentally, helps a heart physically. God Bless our medical Profession. Bad apples are everywhere, but doesn't mean the tree is bad

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I think you defined unnecessary tests above. In your own words, "....some test[s], which had nothing to do with providing you with good healthcare."

You don't get it..and you never will. I'm out.