[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by applesoffh

Does Monsanto use chemicals to genetically modify the crops? I seriously doubt they use cross breeding of desired traits, as has been done for generations, as that would be too time consuming. If genetically modified seed transfers to the soil in which it is planted, and that soild becomes resistant to pesticides, that's got to be horrendous for the water supply. Somehow, in spite of all the talk about how good Monsanto's genetically modified seed is, there are still sane arguments in opposition.

************************************************** *****
NO

Step by Step, How to Genetically Modify A Seed
Using nature as a guide, geneticists build plants with qualities evolution could never produce
Behind every single seed is at least a decade of research involving geneticists, engineers and farmers, working to produce a seed that will grow exactly as expected, and in a way nature may not have intended.
(Article is 2 pages long)

How To Genetically Modify a Seed, Step By Step | Popular Science

Photo Gallery 7 Images

http://www.popsci.com/technology/gal...-modified-seed


Ginny Ursin, head of technology prospecting at Monsanto, has been studying plants most of her life; at age 10, she cobbled together a makeshift greenhouse in the front yard. It was well-built enough that a city building inspector dropped by to inquire about a permit, she recalled. After obtaining her Ph.D in genetics from the University of California-Davis, she studied the biochemical pathways that allow plants to accumulate oil. She has spent more than a decade developing a new omega-3 soybean, which actually produces a precursor fatty acid that our bodies convert into a heart-healthy type of omega-3 — fish oil without the fish. Its history includes Alaskan wildflowers, a type of mold used in Indonesian cooking and years of patient cultivation.

Monsanto is working with the African Agricultural Technology Foundation to license the technology it used to make drought-tolerant corn, which it hopes will debut in this country by 2012. Corn is a huge cash crop in this country, so Monsanto isn’t exactly giving it away — but the public-private partnership, financed in part by a $47 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the Howard G. Buffett Foundation, will help African companies develop their own strains, which theoretically can thrive in dry areas of western Africa.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by maureenod

They now have a GM Salmon before the FDA for approval. If you think for one minute that the FDA is on your side think again. Money talks.

Originally Posted by AutoBike

From the FDA's website:
10. Are there long-term health effects of foods from genetically engineered plants?
When evaluating the safety of food from genetically engineered plants, scientists with experience in assessing the long-term safety of food and food ingredients consider several factors, such as information about the long-term safety of the food from traditionally bred crops in combination with information on the food safety of the newly introduced traits. Foods from genetically engineered plants that have been evaluated by FDA through the consultation process have not gone on the market until the FDA’s questions about the safety of such products have been resolved.
Questions & Answers on Food from Genetically Engineered Plants

Here is one of those rare times in a serious discussion that I cannot help thinking the acronym ROFLMAO!!! You're right on, maureenod! The FDA?! The world's second most frequently told lie is "I'm here from the government to HELP you!" (The most frequently told lie is "The check is in the mail...." And no, I cannot document this; it's a joke!) Although I'm not trying to confuse anyone with facts when their minds are made up, following are a handful of links that spell out some of the more disastrous decisions made and positions taken by the FDA (of which GMO labeling is only one):

Testimony Assessing the U.S. Drug Safety System

FDA says it's OK to turn bad food into sellable stuff » peoplesworld

The Shocking Story of How Aspartame Became Legal | Collective-Evolution

The Ten Worst Drug Recalls In The History Of The FDA - 24/7 Wall St.

FDA’s Biggest Blunders - Health - MSN Healthy Living

The 20th Anniversary of the FDA's Biggest Mistake | Rodale News

Originally Posted by mickey100

My issue with GMO crops is the pesticide connection. When GMO corn is Roundup resistant, instead of using less Roundup the farmers use more Roundup to kill all the superweeds that have cropped up in recent years, and the corn itself may show residual of the roundup upon harvest. And we know that chemical pesticides are bad for us. So its not the GMO traits of the corn that are bad, but the residual herbicides that they harbor.

This is yet another serious side effect of GMOs....

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

.... Dear Ms. Brown:

During the 112th Congress, Representative Dennis Kucinich of Ohio introduced H.R. 3553, the Genetically Engineered Food Right to Know Act. This legislation would have required food producers and companies to label any food containing genetically engineered products with statements meeting specified requirements....

Sincerely,
Steve Pearce
Member of Congress

Stevan Edward "Steve" Pearce is the U.S. Representative for New Mexico's 2nd congressional district. He is a member of the Republican Party. He previously held the seat from 2003 to 2009 and was an Assistant Minority Whip....

Emphasis above ("would have") is mine. Why did this legislation fail? Why did Monsanto pour millions of dollars to defeat a similar proposition in California in the last election? Why are food producers so reluctant to provide information on their products that state what is GMO? Why the need for such secrecy? This sure makes it sound as though there is something to hide.... Here are links to more studies concerning GMOs (and the reason I didn't post this yesterday is that I wanted to read all these links first):

GMO Scandal: The Long Term Effects of Genetically Modified Food on Humans | Global Research

Institute for Responsible Technology - Doctors Warn: Avoid Genetically Modified Food

The Effects of Genetically Modified Foods | The Liberty Beacon

Genetically Modified (GM) Food, Genetically Modified Organisms, Genetic Engineering, GM Food Crops, Engineered GMOs, Genetically Altered Foods.

Frankenfoods: The debate over genetically modified (GM) foods | Washington Times Communities

The Truth Is Out on Genetically Modified Foods - And It's Not Pretty

Vital Link article on health hazards of genetically modified foods

Genetically Modified Foods Affect Health and Body - Oprah.com

A point of view in a discussion is lost as soon as we sink to the level of being offensive or patronizing (as in an ageism and nationality comment about a respected geneticist, as though someone with decades of experience and a non-American to boot disqualifies him AND his research) or a put-down of British farmers by describing them in primitive terms or describing the views of someone whose differ from yours in a disparaging term rather than simply disagreeing.

To go back to my first quote, "Money talks." We can put down anyone who disagrees with us in an offensive way, even countries who disagree and ban GMOs and who thus even risk the possibility of their own food supplies being more costly to their citizens (based on supply and demand) because of these countries' concerns about the health of their citizenry. But it's American farmers who are the losers! Meantime, a "Protection of Monsanto Act" quietly sneaks through Congress that, as stated in this article, "Liberals and Tea Party Members alike are up in arms over...."

The Real Monsanto Protection Act: How The GMO Giant Corrupts Regulators And Consolidates Its Power | ThinkProgress

How can one not respect the concerns of someone who writes a thoughtful comment like this:

Originally Posted by asianthree

So far I am doing well with this we grow our veggies from seeds that have been in our family for generations we raise our own organic beef chicken and pork since forever (sorry jumbo) but still it's a great concern for children to come.

Originally Posted by golf4me

.... I doubt if my post will change anyone's mind....

Originally Posted by Villages PL

.... So far, no one has asked for references proving that GMO foods cause no harm to the environment or intestinal bacteria....[/B]

I don't understand this. Why should anyone think in terms of needing to "change anyone's mind" or "proving that GMO foods cause no harm"? GMOs are only one issue. If one is comfortable eating GMOs; eating foods from animals that have been treated with such things as BGH; eating foods that have been produced with heavy use of pesticides; eating foods with artificial colors, flavors, and flavor enhancers such as MSG; and so forth, then one is free to do so. On the other hand, if one is NOT comfortable eating such foods and prefers foods that are organically raised, which invariably cost more, then one is free to do that. No minds need to be changed; no proving is necessary....

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

It's in the drug company's best interests to fully disclose potential hazards because they know that if there is a lawsuit and they had knowingly withheld pertinent data, they would be lose their butts in court.

I stand by my statement: If drug companies can hide negative research, Monsanto can do the same.

A quick search turned up lots of articles. Here are a few:

Search: Drug firms hiding negative research are unfit to experiment on people. (This article involves Glaxo Smith Kline and Astra Zeneca)

Here's a book: Bad Pharma: How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients.

Search: Drug Companies hide cancer research showing negative results.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

I'd rather die happy eating GMO than worry myself to death about possible negative effects of doing so.

And of course there is the third alternative: to die happy and healthy eating non-GMO foods!

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Quixote

And of course there is the third alternative: to die happy and healthy eating non-GMO foods!

Thanks for all the informative links you provided, I learned a lot. I had no idea there were so many GM foods. I don't eat processed foods so that's not a problem for me. Of the 12 GM foods on the whole foods list, I eat about 5.

The last time I shopped at Aldi's I passed on the corn and I'm glad I did now that I know about the built in pesticide.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

.... The last time I shopped at Aldi's I passed on the corn and I'm glad I did now that I know about the built in pesticide.

And the last time I shopped at Aldi's, I was suckered into buying the corn because it LOOKED so good (one of the goals of genetic modification of foods). My mistake; no one else is responsible. When I got home, I realized what I had done and promptly threw it out. Wouldn't even feed it to the animals (that I don't have...)!

[KeepingItReal]

Always heard it, I now believe it, Old dogs really can't learn new tricks.......

Think about all the negativity towards drug companies and the FDA next time you or a family member needs a life saving drug or there is a food shortage or another problem.

If you think you can eat well enough to stay totally healthy I think you are in for a big surprise soon and then there are all your family members that may need a crucial drug to save their life.

Biased, half truth, and self serving links are easy to find on about anything. These are usually written by someone like Lipton or Suzuki without any or a questionable background trying to get some attention for themselves or sell a book.

Hopefully the critics and naysayers will not be able to discourage research and developments we need.

Big companies are in business just like any business and do make mistakes but it takes big business to do the research, invest the needed capital, take the risks, and even market a product.

No critics have offered any suggestions or alternatives to solving the food supply issues, the orange disease currently happening, or any other problem, yet criticize those working on these problems..
Guess we can just hope they will go away since we can't reply on the many people with PHDs working hard everyday. What the heck do they know anyway.

I'm done.

[JP]

In my opinion, genetically modified anything is just the same thing that has been happening on our planet since its inception. EVOLUTION.

[graciegirl]

QUOTE=Jp [my opinion, genetically modified anything is just the same thing that has been happening on our planet since its inception. EVOLUTION.UNQUOTE


QUOTE=KeepingItReal;687033]Always heard it, I now believe it, Old dogs really can't learn new tricks.......

Think about all the negativity towards drug companies and the FDA next time you or a family member needs a life saving drug or there is a food shortage or another problem.

If you think you can eat well enough to stay totally healthy I think you are in for a big surprise soon and then there are all your family members that may need a crucial drug to save their life.

Biased, half truth, and self serving links are easy to find on about anything. These are usually written by someone like Lipton or Suzuki without any or a questionable background trying to get some attention for themselves or sell a book.

Hopefully the critics and naysayers will not be able to discourage research and developments we need.

Big companies are in business just like any business and do make mistakes but it takes big business to do the research, invest the needed capital, take the risks, and even market a product.

No critics have offered any suggestions or alternatives to solving the food supply issues, the orange disease currently happening, or any other problem, yet criticize those working on these problems..
Guess we can just hope they will go away since we can't reply on the many people with PHDs working hard everyday. What the heck do they know anyway.

I'm done.[/QUOTE]



I completely agree with both Keeping It Real and JP in their above posts. Well said, gentlemen.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I completely agree with both Keeping It Real and JP in their above posts. Well said, gentlemen.

Surely, my friend graciegirl, you cannot be disagreeing with this "live and let live" point of view, can you be?

Originally Posted by Quixote

.... Why should anyone think in terms of needing to "change anyone's mind" or "proving that GMO foods cause no harm"? GMOs are only one issue. If one is comfortable eating GMOs; eating foods from animals that have been treated with such things as BGH; eating foods that have been produced with heavy use of pesticides; eating foods with artificial colors, flavors, and flavor enhancers such as MSG; and so forth, then one is free to do so. On the other hand, if one is NOT comfortable eating such foods and prefers foods that are organically raised, which invariably cost more, then one is free to do that. No minds need to be changed; no proving is necessary....

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Here is one of those rare times in a serious discussion that I cannot help thinking the acronym ROFLMAO!!! You're right on, maureenod! The FDA?! The world's second most frequently told lie is "I'm here from the government to HELP you!" (The most frequently told lie is "The check is in the mail...." And no, I cannot document this; it's a joke!) Although I'm not trying to confuse anyone with facts when their minds are made up, following are a handful of links that spell out some of the more disastrous decisions made and positions taken by the FDA (of which GMO labeling is only one):

Testimony Assessing the U.S. Drug Safety System

FDA says it's OK to turn bad food into sellable stuff » peoplesworld

The Shocking Story of How Aspartame Became Legal | Collective-Evolution

The Ten Worst Drug Recalls In The History Of The FDA - 24/7 Wall St.

FDA’s Biggest Blunders - Health - MSN Healthy Living

The 20th Anniversary of the FDA's Biggest Mistake | Rodale News




This is yet another serious side effect of GMOs....




Emphasis above ("would have") is mine. Why did this legislation fail? Why did Monsanto pour millions of dollars to defeat a similar proposition in California in the last election? Why are food producers so reluctant to provide information on their products that state what is GMO? Why the need for such secrecy? This sure makes it sound as though there is something to hide.... Here are links to more studies concerning GMOs (and the reason I didn't post this yesterday is that I wanted to read all these links first):

GMO Scandal: The Long Term Effects of Genetically Modified Food on Humans | Global Research

Institute for Responsible Technology - Doctors Warn: Avoid Genetically Modified Food

The Effects of Genetically Modified Foods | The Liberty Beacon

Genetically Modified (GM) Food, Genetically Modified Organisms, Genetic Engineering, GM Food Crops, Engineered GMOs, Genetically Altered Foods.

Frankenfoods: The debate over genetically modified (GM) foods | Washington Times Communities

The Truth Is Out on Genetically Modified Foods - And It's Not Pretty

Vital Link article on health hazards of genetically modified foods

Genetically Modified Foods Affect Health and Body - Oprah.com

A point of view in a discussion is lost as soon as we sink to the level of being offensive or patronizing (as in an ageism and nationality comment about a respected geneticist, as though someone with decades of experience and a non-American to boot disqualifies him AND his research) or a put-down of British farmers by describing them in primitive terms or describing the views of someone whose differ from yours in a disparaging term rather than simply disagreeing.

To go back to my first quote, "Money talks." We can put down anyone who disagrees with us in an offensive way, even countries who disagree and ban GMOs and who thus even risk the possibility of their own food supplies being more costly to their citizens (based on supply and demand) because of these countries' concerns about the health of their citizenry. But it's American farmers who are the losers! Meantime, a "Protection of Monsanto Act" quietly sneaks through Congress that, as stated in this article, "Liberals and Tea Party Members alike are up in arms over...."

The Real Monsanto Protection Act: How The GMO Giant Corrupts Regulators And Consolidates Its Power | ThinkProgress

How can one not respect the concerns of someone who writes a thoughtful comment like this:








I don't understand this. Why should anyone think in terms of needing to "change anyone's mind" or "proving that GMO foods cause no harm"? GMOs are only one issue. If one is comfortable eating GMOs; eating foods from animals that have been treated with such things as BGH; eating foods that have been produced with heavy use of pesticides; eating foods with artificial colors, flavors, and flavor enhancers such as MSG; and so forth, then one is free to do so. On the other hand, if one is NOT comfortable eating such foods and prefers foods that are organically raised, which invariably cost more, then one is free to do that. No minds need to be changed; no proving is necessary....

I think your post was worthwhile and informative, but if it wasn't designed to prove anything or change anyone's mind, what was the point of it? What was the point of all those links?

If GM foods are destructive and bring about ever increasing environmental and healthcare costs, why should it be allowed to continue? If it's based on the freedom to do so, will the rest of us be free from paying the costs?

[Quixote]

I wrote this yesterday ...

Originally Posted by Quixote

To go back to my first quote, "Money talks." .... But it's American farmers who are the losers! Meantime, a "Protection of Monsanto Act" quietly sneaks through Congress that, as stated in this article, "Liberals and Tea Party Members alike are up in arms over...."

... and this is today's news. Feel free to "kill the messenger"!

"It's on! Farmers begin suing Monsanto over genetic pollution of wheat crops"

Learn more: It's on! Farmers begin suing Monsanto over genetic pollution of wheat crops

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I think your post was worthwhile and informative, but if it wasn't designed to prove anything or change anyone's mind, what was the point of it? What was the point of all those links?

If GM foods are destructive and bring about ever increasing environmental and healthcare costs, why should it be allowed to continue? If it's based on the freedom to do so, will the rest of us be free from paying the costs?

You have answered your own question [see bold emphasis above]. Undecided people can make up their own minds. People can choose to change their minds if they wish; that's not my job. I am Quixote; I do battle with windmills, not with the minds of others. I know my limitations; the best I can do is live by a power of example: those who agree, agree; those who don't agree, don't agree. Those who don't agree AND THEN feel the need to "kill the messenger" because they don't like the message, well, that's not my problem, and I have no control over it; sorry....

"Will the rest of us be free from paying the costs?" That's a joke, isn't it—perhaps a not-so-funny joke, but a joke nonetheless?! With government comes the good and the bad. For example (as it's been part of this discussion), the FDA has done some wonderful things, but to cite them as a paragon of perfection when they've made some terrible proven mistakes is just plain unrealistic. And yes, we do pay for it. Michael J. Fox has public recognition and money, both of which theoretically should bring clout, but was he able to do anything for the many years that stem cell research—that could by now have given us a cure for Parkinson's disease—was banned? C'mon.... Purism and idealism may be wonderful, but we have to live in a world of reality!

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by Quixote

And the last time I shopped at Aldi's, I was suckered into buying the corn because it LOOKED so good (one of the goals of genetic modification of foods). My mistake; no one else is responsible. When I got home, I realized what I had done and promptly threw it out. Wouldn't even feed it to the animals (that I don't have...)!

Wasting food is like stealing from the poor, says Pope Francis at his weekly audience in St. Peter's Square.
Wasting food is like stealing from the poor, says pope - World News

[zonerboy]

"Paranoia strikes deep,
Into your life it will creep,
It starts when you're always afraid,
............
Better stop, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goin down."

Buffalo Springfield 1967

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by JP

In my opinion, genetically modified anything is just the same thing that has been happening on our planet since its inception. EVOLUTION.

What you say has some truth to it but overlooks the pace at which evolution effects change to plants, animals and humans. In nature, there's very little genetic change over tens of thousands of years. The very slow change in plants and animals allows humans the time to adapt. Genetic change creeps along ever so slowly and that's what keeps everything in balance.

Now we have scientists in laboratories making genetic changes, one after another, in a short period of time, leaving no time for animal and human species to adapt. Does anyone know what all the consequences of this rapid change will be?

If you are one who eats a lot of processed foods, you might not care about rapid genetic changes to the food supply. This is basically the same thing all over again because we have not had time to adapt to all the many processed foods that are available to us in supermarkets. And I can see the effect it has had on our population with record numbers of people being overweight and obese. More and more cases of diabetes, heart disease, cancer, arthritis etc.. Now rapid genetic change to the food supply just adds more fuel to the fire.

P.S. I'm not trying to change anyones mind, I'm just providing information. :-)