[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Over many pre-pandemic years several people of limited income I have known who reside in New Mexico for extensive and expensive dental procedures went to dental clinics in Juarez, Mexico, across the border from El Paso, Texas. The way it works is they stay in hotels in El Paso and vans from the clinics pick them up and drive them to and from the clinics. The dentists and oral surgeons speak English, are well trained, many in the US, and the clinics are clean and up to date. Extensive procedures are done cheaply and quickly, much more so than in the US, and the patients are sent on their way. Of course patients can return if problems develop as they only live 100 - 200 miles away at most. The Top 10 Clinics in Juarez | Book Now - Dental Departures

Note how the article repeatedly stresses Juarez is now safe. lol

A couple weeks ago I was chatting with a long time Albuquerque friend who has a housekeeper who although born in the US was raised in Mexico as her parents are Mexicans. This lady grew up in Juarez so she knows it well and gets her dental care there. Her dentist along with other dentists have been forced to close their clinics due to cartel violence. They discreetly rent houses in which to practice in residential neighborhoods to avoid becoming cartel targets.

Yes, I find it sad that people living in the wealthiest country in the world often have to go to some of the poorest countries to get medical care.

Medical Vacations, as it is now called is a very fast growing industry, and many insurance companies will now pay for the trip and the treatment in a foreign country because it saves them money over paying for the same treatment here.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Yes, I find it sad that people living in the wealthiest country in the world often have to go to some of the poorest countries to get medical care.

Medical Vacations, as it is now called is a very fast growing industry, and many insurance companies will now pay for the trip and the treatment in a foreign country because it saves them money over paying for the same treatment here.

The cost of supplies and equipment is the same but the doctors and dentists in those countries not having to worry about carrying the enormous cost of US malpractice insurance is a major factor. Tort reform anyone???

On another note I had a gardener from Guadalajara, Mexico for over 20 years when I resided in Newport Beach, CA. He was a naturalized US citizen. Over those years he and I grew to know each other very well and and discussed many of our serious life decisions among other things. I regarded him as a very smart and wise man. One day he asked me about how much a crown would cost and what dentist would I recommend. I asked him why he did not get that done when he visited his family in Mexico. His response was he did not trust dentists in Mexico. They cheat on materials and so on. He would rather pay two or three times the Mexican cost in the US! He was adamant about that and had it done in the US.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Yes, I find it sad that people living in the wealthiest country in the world often have to go to some of the poorest countries to get medical care.

Medical Vacations, as it is now called is a very fast growing industry, and many insurance companies will now pay for the trip and the treatment in a foreign country because it saves them money over paying for the same treatment here.

If they can afford a trip to a foreign country, they can afford dental care. They would rather spend their money on their luxuries or pleasures. The truly indigent can avail the Medicaid programs and often dentists adjust their rates and provide charity for those who real reasons for not being able to pay.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

If they can afford a trip to a foreign country, they can afford dental care. They would rather spend their money on their luxuries or pleasures. The truly indigent can avail the Medicaid programs and often dentists adjust their rates and provide charity for those who real reasons for not being able to pay.

Okay, I understand now why Medical Vacations are a booming industry.

Thank you for clearing that up. I mean, silly me looking at saving $10K on a $25K medical procedure. I am so totally messed up.

And the Medicaid thing - uh, what about the other 100 million people that don't qualify for Medicaid - they make too much but can't afford the $25K medical procedure I just had, that insurance won't cover.

Oh, and to clarify for me, I could afford a couple $500 round-trip tickets to Ecuador (2019), so I should be able to afford a $25K medical procedure and not bother saving $10K in the process.

Would you please clarify that for me? I missed it when I made my decision - I thought I was saving 40% on the cost of the procedure while getting paid for vacation to an exotic foreign country. Is it unAmerican to save 40% on a $25K medical procedure?

I KNEW this thread would end up here. If it continues, I will just end the discussion. It is sad we can't even discuss this topic. I have had several members ask for information privately, it seems I am not the only one that likes to save money.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Aces4

If they can afford a trip to a foreign country, they can afford dental care. They would rather spend their money on their luxuries or pleasures. The truly indigent can avail the Medicaid programs and often dentists adjust their rates and provide charity for those who real reasons for not being able to pay.

Bingo!

Plus there is no way I would go to a third world country for serious medical treatment.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Okay, I understand now why Medical Vacations are a booming industry.

Thank you for clearing that up. I mean, silly me looking at saving $10K on a $25K medical procedure. I am so totally messed up.

And the Medicaid thing - uh, what about the other 100 million people that don't qualify for Medicaid - they make too much but can't afford the $25K medical procedure I just had, that insurance won't cover.

Oh, and to clarify for me, I could afford a couple $500 round-trip tickets to Ecuador (2019), so I should be able to afford a $25K medical procedure and not bother saving $10K in the process.

Would you please clarify that for me? I missed it when I made my decision - I thought I was saving 40% on the cost of the procedure while getting paid for vacation to an exotic foreign country. Is it unAmerican to save 40% on a $25K medical procedure?

I KNEW this thread would end up here. If it continues, I will just end the discussion. It is sad we can't even discuss this topic. I have had several members ask for information privately, it seems I am not the only one that likes to save money.

Un-American? You may have your usual agenda. I’m talking about safety in seeking medical/dental care outside of this country. Between the dental care/procedures and safety in third world countries, Americans are at risk choosing these services. May I ask what form of payment is accepted; personal check or charge card? It a matter of choices but sooner or later, everyone’s luck runs out.

It works for you now, go for it. Anyone considering cutting that corner should surely do their homework thoroughly before engaging in those services.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I KNEW this thread would end up here. If it continues, I will just end the discussion. It is sad we can't even discuss this topic. I have had several members ask for information privately, it seems I am not the only one that likes to save money.

You directed this thread to a discussion of running out of the country for dental care when you began clucking about it is a shame people have to go outside the USA for treatment from a dentist. I pointed out that people make choices how to spend their money.

I suggest one should work for 6 months in a dental office and become familiar with equipment, employees, benefits, accountant, supplies, computer systems, phone lines, INSURANCE and so forth. Do dentists have a greater income than some other workers? They should have considering all the education, skill required and dealing with spit, halitosis, filthy teeth, lazy dental care not to mention time spent calming the terrified patients.

There are very dedicated, caring dental providers in the USA out there and I’ll stick with them.

[Nucky]

I wonder if Morgan & Morgan would come to the rescue if a person had a medical incident in Ecuador?

I did have a whole lot of truck drivers working for me that were from Ecuador. Their face lit up when they remembered the family that the left behind and told stories of how beautiful their country was. I had a friend named Hector who talked common sense into a person who could have had me jailed for the reason of their choice and he was from Ecuador. I asked Hector why he felt the need to come to my rescue. He said all the injustice he saw in his country sort of forced him to do the correct thing for me. I lost touch with him. He went back to help a brother of his who was jailed for killing another man in a drucken squabble over NOTHING. Sounds about right. Out of the gang of 8 to 10 drivers from Ecuador maybe there was a total of one dozen teeth between all of them. I like our set up better. Nobody is going to practice on me. Their Dentists didn't do them any favors. Your results may vary.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Un-American? You may have your usual agenda. I’m talking about safety in seeking medical/dental care outside of this country. Between the dental care/procedures and safety in third world countries, Americans are at risk choosing these services. May I ask what form of payment is accepted; personal check or charge card? It a matter of choices but sooner or later, everyone’s luck runs out.

It works for you now, go for it. Anyone considering cutting that corner should surely do their homework thoroughly before engaging in those services.

Funny, I guess I missed the mention of safety.

Would please share your data supporting the danger to people taking medical vacations having poorer outcomes or being injured or killed while in foreign countries, or is that just "your usual agenda"

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Nucky

I wonder if Morgan & Morgan would come to the rescue if a person had a medical incident in Ecuador?

I did have a whole lot of truck drivers working for me that were from Ecuador. Their face lit up when they remembered the family that the left behind and told stories of how beautiful their country was. I had a friend named Hector who talked common sense into a person who could have had me jailed for the reason of their choice and he was from Ecuador. I asked Hector why he felt the need to come to my rescue. He said all the injustice he saw in his country sort of forced him to do the correct thing for me. I lost touch with him. He went back to help a brother of his who was jailed for killing another man in a drucken squabble over NOTHING. Sounds about right. Out of the gang of 8 to 10 drivers from Ecuador maybe there was a total of one dozen teeth between all of them. I like our set up better. Nobody is going to practice on me. Their Dentists didn't do them any favors. Your results may vary.

When was this? I can't address it, I do know that almost everyone I have met here is the poorer part of Cuenca have all their teeth. Not mean that is a scientific example or anything. I do recall growing up and being around truck loaders at the farmers market in south Florida. I think there were a hundred or so working on the platform, and even at 8 or 10 I recall being fascinated by how few teeth they had. Doesn't speak well for how the poor are treated in our country either and certainly does not reflect on what dentistry was available to those that could afford to get to it and pay for it.

I have been out in the countryside in Ecuador, and the poor there make the poor in the city look wealthy. And I expect not too many of them could afford to walk a hundred miles into the city to get to a dentist. Sort of like migrant workers here can't afford to take time off to go to the dentist and, if they could, couldn't afford to pay for it.

I know a little about poor from personal experience; we were poor growing up, All my toys were ones my mother got from working at Burdines (a department store in Florida), and they were given to employees since they had been returned; most were broken. All my clothes were handed down to me. I bought my own bicycle by walking a newspaper route for a year to save money.

But I always considered us rich, because I worked from 6 to 12 loading trucks and train cars with vegetables. (My father was the agent for the railroad, so I had transportation to and from work and an "in" with the farmers that knew him. I saw what real poverty was while working alongside the poor loading those truck and train cars, and really believed I was a privileged rich kid.

And my grandfather was a retired carpenter in Winter Haven, Florida (around here), He bought some useless land outside of town and build one room houses with no glass in the windows and no indoor plumbing and let first come for server migrant workers live in them while they were in the area harvesting oranges - let as in for free, because they could afford nothing. They didn't have many teeth either.

My point is I expect the people you met were very poor in Ecuador and came to the US to escape the brutality and poverty in their own country.

I have NEVER said Ecuador was a rich country or a democratic country, but I have said the people that are much more friendly than the people here. I have said that the poor people in Cuenca are very happy despite their poverty. I have discussed how walking around the neighborhood, I was struck by how so many parents were out in the streets walking their children home from school - laughing and playing with their kids. I have talked about how in stores, the kids and their parents seem to always be happy and cheerful, unlike here, where it is common to see a parent screaming at the children while shopping,

Despite all our advantages, I question if we are really happier. I question if, for all our wealth, we are better off. I don't know. America has given me a lot of opportunities; for one, I am no longer POOR. I am not wealthy by any stretch, but I am not struggling to survive. It pains me to see posts from my granddaughter, a young mother of two, who works two jobs and sell her plasma occasionally to pay for unexpected expenses because she is too proud to ask for help.

And despite all America has done for me and how grateful I am, Ecuador is at the top of the shortlist for where my wife and I, will be migrating depending on how the 2024 elections go.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

You directed this thread to a discussion of running out of the country for dental care when you began clucking about it is a shame people have to go outside the USA for treatment from a dentist. I pointed out that people make choices how to spend their money.

I suggest one should work for 6 months in a dental office and become familiar with equipment, employees, benefits, accountant, supplies, computer systems, phone lines, INSURANCE and so forth. Do dentists have a greater income than some other workers? They should have considering all the education, skill required and dealing with spit, halitosis, filthy teeth, lazy dental care not to mention time spent calming the terrified patients.

There are very dedicated, caring dental providers in the USA out there and I’ll stick with them.

Do you realize how loudly your usual agenda screams in every post you make on my threads?

NO ONE said anything about RUNNING OUT OF THE COUNTRY; the discussion was about where I am and why I am there. And saving $10K is a meaningful saving to some of us. I am happy that you can just brush off saving $10K as meanless savings. It is wonderful that you are rich.

And yes, it is a shame that people can't have the medical care they can't afford here; that is a FACT. No amount of your American Exceptionalism will change the fact.

I have never said anything bad about dentists here in America - ever. PERIOD that is a gross misrepresentation of everything I have ever said.

You are the one that came here into my thread where we were having a pleasant conversation and started making false claims about what and why I was posting.

If the fact of anyone wants to check it out (moderators?), they will find you have a habit of coming onto threads where you have not posted anything and making posts misrepresenting my posts.

I really do feel sorry for you. You have a serious problem.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Bingo!

Plus there is no way I would go to a third world country for serious medical treatment.

Good, I promise I will never vote for a law forcing you to go to Ecuador to get dental care.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Funny, I guess I missed the mention of safety.

Would please share your data supporting the danger to people taking medical vacations having poorer outcomes or being injured or killed while in foreign countries, or is that just "your usual agenda"

Have you ever considered doing an online search yourself for that information.

I stated earlier, it’s your choice… do what you want. I did advise others to be cautious when considering dental work or medical treatment in a third world country to be very wary of possible complications, inferior work and personal safety. Wouldn’t you admit that is very wise advice if they are contemplating that possibility?

Also, you haven’t shared with us how payment for treatment to your dentist is made.

[MartinSE]

I am sorry to everyone who had a pleasant conversation before this gentleman came here to spread his venom.

I tried to close it because he has a history of doing this on my posts. However, for whatever reason, I could not find the close option where it is typically on threads. I will not tolerate these intrusions and have had several vacations from TOTV because I push back when this happens.

I will ask the moderators to close this thread, and I will not apologize for pushing back when attacked.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Do you realize how loudly your usual agenda screams in every post you make on my threads?

NO ONE said anything about RUNNING OUT OF THE COUNTRY; the discussion was about where I am and why I am there. And saving $10K is a meaningful saving to some of us. I am happy that you can just brush off saving $10K as meanless savings. It is wonderful that you are rich.

And yes, it is a shame that people can't have the medical care they can't afford here; that is a FACT. No amount of your American Exceptionalism will change the fact.

I have never said anything bad about dentists here in America - ever. PERIOD that is a gross misrepresentation of everything I have ever said.

You are the one that came here into my thread where we were having a pleasant conversation and started making false claims about what and why I was posting.

If the fact of anyone wants to check it out (moderators?), they will find you have a habit of coming onto threads where you have not posted anything and making posts misrepresenting my posts.

I really do feel sorry for you. You have a serious problem.

Feel better now? So I assume a dialog about the position of seeking dental treatment in a third world, developing nation should not take place. BTW, were they able to use your bone for that graft? I made no false claims, stated facts and indicated it didn’t bother me where you sought treatment.

I simply provided the other side of the coin. Isn’t that better than being sued by someone who thinks they were provided with incorrect or partial information? We’re discussing serious health decisions.