Another mass shooting
 

Another mass shooting at a mall in El Paso. Multiple fatalities reported and injured. When is something going to be done?

Anyone know of even conversation taking place about a uniquely American situation ?

Anyone know of any legislation being discussed ?

It's already illegal to murder someone and also illegal to willfully injure a person, so what additional legislation will stop this type of crime?

Well, I see gun and ease of buying as a common denominator,

To be fair, I am not a gun owner, but buying guns sems so easy. and building an arsenal with accessories is becoming common.

It does not happen like this in other countries and thus I suggest maybe just talking about something that, once again, is unique to America. Isn't this the third one this week ?

I just find it offensive to think we simply accept this stuff where our kids and grand kids are gunned down and we stay silent.

How do you legislate mental illness? You know it will come out...again, the other common denominator, that the shooter, or it looks like possibly shooters, were and are wackos. I'm not going to say too much anymore on the gun "debate" , it get's nowhere here, and it's never civil.
Steve

Juarez murders reach nearly 200 a month as Mexico’s next president prepares to face the violence | Mexico | Dallas News

I realize it's old news, 2018.

Of the 86 countries where we have identified mass public shootings, the US ranks 56th per capita in its rate of attacks and 61st in mass public shooting murder rate. Norway, Finland, Switzerland and Russia all have at least 45 percent higher rates of murder from mass public shootings than the United States.

From America doesn’t actually lead the world in mass shootings

And as for intentional homicides it just a smidgeon worse in Canada. List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

Yes, it IS too easy for just about anyone to obtain a weapon whether it be by legal or nonlegal methods.

I am not going into gun control, but it would seem that there needs to be some form of it -- a check and balance of some type if you will, or this kind of horror will continue.

And even with some form of control, it would probably be a long time before many of the illegal forms of ownership can be controlled and/or taken off the street.
While I have my own personal thoughts, it's obviously the time is past due for something to be done.

I am not going into the politics of the subject, but there is far too much talk and not enough action (as in none!)!

I am a progressive and I agree with the comments that this problem will not be legislated away. This is a cultural problem. There are MANY reasons for this and there is no "silver bullet" that is going to make it go away.

I also think this comment "Mental illness" is closer to the truth that the OP actually meant. I believe it is one of many forms of mental illness to kill anyone that is not a threat to you.

I believe the answer is to first understand the problem, which will require a lot of research, and most sources of data for that research are currently unfunded by the Federal government.

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people, many of whom were children, with a rental truck filled with a mixture of fertilizer and diesel. In Europe there have been numerous murders committed with motor vehicles. Mexico makes it nearly impossible for the average citizen to own a gun. Back in the late 80's or 90's I read a report that in Mexico there were more knife homicides than homicides committed in the US by all means, guns, knives, clubs, fits, etc. In Japan a group of people used sarin gas in an attack on the subway system. 12 people were killed and many injured. Restricting gun ownership won't do much to reduce homicide, a person determined to kill will find some means of doing so.
We have a violence problem in this country, not just gun violence. Look at the so-called anti fascists, they assault people with fists, clubs, and iron pipes. A group of these cowards attacked an Asian media reporter and hospitalized him. No guns used, just fists, feet and clubs. Road rage incidents where people run each other off the road. Spouse abuse, child abuse, elder abuse. Verbal abuse and bullying on the social media outlets causing young children to commit suicide. We need to determine the cause of violence and work on eliminating it. Eliminating the tool used in violence does nothing to stop the violent behavior. I'll say it again, WE HAVE A VIOLENCE PROBLEM in this country that no one is talking about.

This is only going to get better when sanitariums are reopened or lobotomies performed, sadly.

Anyone believing banning guns will fix the problem must be unaware of knives, bombs, chemical poisoning, arson, poison gases, product tampering, highway death traps and on and on.

Normal people wouldn’t think of it, the mentally ill are obsessed with it. The police can somewhat limit gun violence, other methods could be catastrophic. We need to look at what is our best defense.

Have you ever bought a gun? Under federal law you are required to have a background check done when buying a gun from a licensed dealer. In addition Florida has a 3 day waiting period after the background check before you can take possession of the firearm. Federal law prohibits people with felony convictions and people convicted of domestic violence from purchasing, owning or possessing a firearm. Many criminals obtain guns through what is called a straw purchaser. A non-felon friend, girlfriend, wife, etc. will legally purchase the gun for the felon. This is a felony itself but prosecutors very seldom prosecute the straw purchaser. Drugs are illegal but you can buy them in the smallest towns. I heard that there were a couple incidents of drugs houses here in TV. Prohibition was a disaster, there was more alcohol consumption during prohibition than before or after. Organized crime provided a product that people were willing to pay big money for. The same for drugs, crime organizations smuggle drugs into countries and make billions in profit. Make guns illegal and again organized crime will step in and provide what ever the crazies and criminals need to accomplish the deed they wish to commit. As I said earlier, we have a violence problem, lets work on that.

1. I never said to ban guns or even hinted at that. That is a gut reaction to make that accusation from some corners.

2. I was not speaking of murders thus I understand the murder rate. I do not understand the ease in which folks get guns, but I get the impression that simply makes me stupid, so be it.

My main thrust Is that in a few days this conversation will cease. It will not even be spoken of. I simply would feel better if our leaders at least discussed it. We Are quick to jump quickly and rudely on mundane and personal things but seem unequipped to discuss this.

As i said, I have no gun......I know guns.....from Nam, but have no desire to own one.

i just know we are not only killing our young people, we are traumatizing those who "survive"

Your key point...."we need to take a look at..." WHEN IS MY QUESTION ?

I agree....we talk about nothing like this in this country. You mention anti fascists in your post......not sure how to reply to that.....are youy PRO fascists ? The FBI just recently warned us all about QAnon, yet they are accepted.

I have a distaste for violence totally and in any form, under any and all names. I have seen what hate and violence can do in the name of what the accolytes proclaim it to be. It is still VIOLENCE, and it ALWAYS perpetuates more violence.

Chicago and NYC have some of the toughest gun laws in the USA.

Check and see how well those work!

It ain't the gun!!

Now, where the h&%% did you hear that???

Just go to an adjoining state and buy it there...………...

No, it's not the gun. It is the ease of acquiring one by simply driving over the state line, buying one legally there, and bringing it back home.

ANYONE with a fake ID can get a gun at a gun show. No background check required, no proof that you know how to use it, no license necessary.

Firearms are too easy for ANYONE to get. The government needs to provide more accountability to both the buyer and the seller.

Regarding killing people with a car or a truck filled with fertilizer and fuel (to whoever posted that) none of those three things are made exclusively for the purpose of killing anyone (or anything). Fertilizer's function is to help things GROW. Deisel is a fuel that is designed to - fuel things. Cars are designed to get people from point A to point B. Guns are designed to shoot things and people. Semi-automatic rifles are designed to shoot -and- kill lots of people in a short period of time.

That is the reason why guns exist in the first place.

A license to drive a car is what you get after proving you know how to drive the car. A license to own a firearm is what you get after proving you - want to own a firearm.

There needs to be more control, more accountability, more checks and balances. Right now it's just too easy for any crackpot to walk into a gun show, buy a gun, leave, and shoot up a store.

Mental illness is certainly a component. The trouble is, we give people access to mass killing machines - how else would you describe these semi-automatic military weapons? - when they fill out paper work and it is decided that they are OK to own one today.

But what happens when they flip out 2 years from now and they own a powerful semi-automatic weapon? Nobody has ever explained how you check on their continued mental balance after they bought the weapon.

The problem is who will decide whether a person who wants to buy a gun is or is not a "crackpot"?

Well let's see. If they've been regular visitors to the local drug rehab center courtesy of a court order, it's a pretty good guess that they probably shouldn't own a firearm. If they have an existing, active diagnosis of borderline personality disorder with delusional tendencies, I'm thinking maybe nix on the AR-15. If she was hospitalized in the last year for attempted suicide - don't issue a license, don't sell the gun.

While this information isn't public knowledge unless it's the result of a court order, it is in a database. Any time a patient poses a threat to anyone including themselves, that information is put into a database.

The seller doesn't even need to know WHY they're being told not to sell the gun. They only need to know "this person has a red flag on her request."

Others have touched on the "violence problem" and mental illness. Actually this is where we need to be looking. Why is the suicide rate rising? Why do people not value life and choose violence as the answer? I remember a teenager being killed over a quarter when I was in junior high school. A quarter! Instead of fixating on the method, we need to understand the why.

Oh and by the way, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reports that almost 30 people PER DAY are killed as a result of drunk driving crashes (link). Cars may not have been designed primarily to kill, but they are certainly effective at doing it WHEN USED ILLEGALLY.

I have no answers, but God has been removed from many things in life the maybe that plays into it?

So, if a person has a mental issue and wants to seek treatment, do they need to jeopardize their right to buy a gun? If so, then I think that some people might just choose to not seek the treatment they need.

Texas has an open carry policy. It does not require background checks for firearm purchases. You can buy a semi-automatic weapon in any gun shop in Texas, and Walmart sells guns in El Paso. Lots of guns all over the place in Texas, including El Paso. No license necessary, it is not required in Texas. You only need a conceal license for handguns, but no license at all for open carry. Not a single person attempted to stop the shooter.

I would not disagree with this statement. Do I think it is the only answer? No, but I think it might be a contributory cause. Unfortunately, in my opinion, if we continue to look at the how instead of the why, we won't move closer to finding the answers.

Background checks for firearm purchase from a licensed dealer are required by FEDERAL law, so no, you can't buy a firearm from a licensed dealer without one in Texas.

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Open carry has nothing to do with purchasing a gun and background checks. Even TX has to follow Federal law..

Background Checks and Federal Firearm Laws Quick Reference
 

Here is a link to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (link)

And here too is the Federal Firearm Laws Quick Reference sheet (link)

The Federal Gun Control regulations are in Title 18 of the United States Code Chapter 44.

Too many psychos out there. They may be only one in 10,000 but that is 100 in a million.

No you can't. For someone that likes facts and figures, links........you
just don't know.
Steve

Background checks are NOT required by federal law for private sales, and Texas has no restrictions requiring them either. ANYONE can get a gun in Texas, legally, without a background check. You're not required to go through a licensed dealer to get a gun. At least, not in Texas, where the El Paso shooting happened.

I don't know where you get your information but federal law requires all purchasers to undergo a background check before they can purchase a firearm. You cannot walk into a gun shop and buy without passing the check. That is the law in every state and territory. As far as not a single person attempted to stop the shooter, maybe there wasn't anyone there with a gun to stop him. An individual with a carry permit does not have police power and most law enforcement people and firearms training instructors will tell you not to intercede in a situation such as this one. Remember in the news not too long ago there was a shooting in a mall I believe. A young black man, former Army or Marine, with a license to carry a firearm saw the shooter, pulled his gun and started to stalk the shooter. A responding police officer saw him and thinking he was the active shooter he was sent to investigate, shot the young man dead.

You are NOT buying a gun "off the rack" in Texas if you are from out of state without a check.

Background Checks in Texas | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
"Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions."

Texas Gun Laws - Our Texas Gun Laws made Simple!
"Q: What is required to purchase a firearm in the state of Texas?
A: You will need a valid state-issued ID. Many FFLs will not sell to out-of-state residents. This is due to the FFL’s requirement to uphold your resident state’s gun laws, and the inherient complexity associated with many states."

Texas Concealed Carry Gun Laws | USCCA CCW Reciprocity Map (Last Updated 06/25/2019)

Background Check Procedures: State by State | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Steve

How do you stop non-legal means of obtaining a gun? Has making the possession and sale of drugs illegal stopped the drug trade? Please use some common sense instead of emotion. There are checks required to purchase a firearm. All licensed gun dealers are required to perform a background check on all buyers and the buyer must pass the check.

No I'm not pro fascist, I was referencing to them as a group that is extremely violent. They claim that their violence is justified because they are freedom fighters.

A long term TV resident I've know for close to 30 years. He stated that there were two incidents where family members of two TV residents were selling drugs from their home. It wasn't like the drug houses in the bad parts of large cities but they were dealing drugs from there. He stated that it was problem children/grandchildren of the TV residents. Why is it so hard to believe that it happened? Not everyone here is a law abiding citizen, this is a town with good and bad people just like those outside of this bubble. Maybe publication of this was muted so as not to besmirch the reputation of the friendliest town in America.

Drug raid in The Villages retirement community nets evidence of golf cart 'chop shop'


Steve

You cannot purchase a handgun in a neighboring state and walk out with it. You can purchase it and have it shipped to a federally licensed gun dealer in your home state where you will have to undergo and pass a background check before you may take possession of the gun, no exceptions.
A long gun, rifle or shotgun, can be purchased from a neighboring state and you may take possession of it then and there. However, if your home state prohibits possession of that gun the neighbor state dealer cannot sell the gun to you. What ever restrictions your home state places on you or the firearm, the neighboring state dealer cannot sell the gun to you if it violates those restrictions.

An out of state private individual cannot legally sell you a hand gun unless he ships it to a licensed dealer in your state. The same restrictions a dealer must comply with on long guns applies to the private out of state seller also.

Hope this educates a few. Thanks
Steve

The point I was making is that you don't need a firearm to kill people. Many objects that weren't designed to use as a weapon have been utilized as a weapon and killed a lot of people. When someone can't get a firearm they will find something else to use to do the crime. Again, WE HAVE A VIOLENCE PROBLEM, eliminating one tool used to commit violence will not stop the violence, another tool will be used. What is so hard to understand about that?