32 countries with universal healthcare
 

Australia, Germany, France, Canada, UK, Russia to name a few. Will it ever happen in US?

I recently traveled to several european countries on vacation. Universal health care is not what it seems. Most people tell us you need private health insurance in order to get adequate care. So just be careful what you read.

And of those 32 where does it work well? None that I know of. Costs run out of control and quality of care suffers. There are no good answers that solve the health care issues every country faces. Doctors leave, the tax burden becomes so onerous that those that make good money leave and the problems get worse.

Someone was touting the very low infant death rate in one of the Nordic countries that have socialized health care. So much lower than the US. Once you studied the facts, we count a child at birth, they don't start counting until the baby is 30 days old. So it becomes very difficult to compare statistics from country to country. The UK's system is bankrupt and cutting services to survive. Canada's does work but for a very small population and the waiting list does get long for lots of things. And those that can afford it do come to the US for lots of items.

There has to be many things we can do to improve our current system but am not sure Universal care is the correct answer.

Make more doctors ..You can't tell me that in a country the size of the United States we don't have millions of people that are qualified to be doctors today. Why is it we have to go to other countries to import doctors to come and work here at big salaries. If I go to India I'm quite sure if i go to a doctor he will not have america accent. Or came from the USA to practice in India. Stop with the baloney the AMA Controls the amount of doctors being produced in the United States and keeps it low so it is really no competition. So as all the experts claim that competition always lowers the price of everything let's make more hospitals produce more doctors. I'm really not quite sure that would work either as I look and see how many lawyers are produced in this country and still they charge a high price. Least the doctor has to go to school for many years to get his doctorates to bring and become an M.D. where real estate salespeople get 6% to do nothing.

Move to one of those countries for a year then give us a report.

Make the hospitals produce more doctors? How do you propose they do that, march the police into homes and drag them to medical school? LOL. I have talked to many doctors about the shortage and they all are in agreement is that it takes a special person today to enter medicine to be a primary care physician. The money and reduced hours are in the specialty areas and that's where medical students focus today. The more medicare provides payment the less attractive primary care becomes. The older the population becomes the more specialized medicine is needed and they don't need to accept government money to do well. There isn't a simple answer. Also have had neighbors return recently from Europe and they talked to a lot of folks about health care. They heard what the previous poster heard, very expensive tax contribution needed but lots of shortcomings, especially as you get older. Don't have first hand knowledge on that.

On a river cruise through The Netherlands and Belgium, tour guide tells us how great it is that they get free college and free healthcare. I ask what they pay in taxes. He says anyone making the equivalent of 50k USD pays about 2/3 in taxes.

k.

For all of you who have posted or are going to post that countries with Universal Health Care have poor care, or that their citizens hate it, or that you once met someone from Germany who wished for Americanized health care.. these sorts of questions are regularly asked by pollsters and researchers. You don't hear of citizen movements to scrap universal health care and replace it with private insurance anywhere, not even from the most conservation politicians in Europe. Tweak the system, yes. But copy the USA, no.

2014 US last in health care of 11 Western nations

2011 U.S. had the highest percentage of respondents who reported being very confident they would receive effective treatment (34.7%) and also the highest percentage saying they were not at all confident they would (9.2%). The U.S., meanwhile, had the highest percentage of respondents who believed that their health system was in need of complete rebuilding (25.4%).

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That is completely wrong. I wish people would post links when they make such outrageous claims. There are very slight differences in definitions of live birth.
Sweden uses exactly the same definition as the US. Norway only counts those born at 12 weeks gestation who exhibit any signs of life, that's 3 months into a pregnancy. Finland uses the WHO definition of liveborn "'Liveborn' is the term for a newborn who breathes or shows other signs of life after birth" Our own CDC has looked very closely at infant mortality. Ours is terrible in part due to higher rates of prematurity [itself a reflection of poor prenatal care and poverty] But it is not just more premies
Please, come here and offer thoughts on improving health care for America, but don't make stuff up.

I wonder why Mick didn't get his heart surgery done in London rather than in NYC? It would have been "free". Mick Jagger Is '''Feeling Much Better Now''' Post-Heart Surgery | PEOPLE.com

The answers are somewhere in the middle. Fixing, instead of insidiously dismantling, the ACA is the way to provide truly more affordable access through the open market for those without access through employers.

Also though, the shared premium costs, out-of-pocket, and high deductibles paid by those with employer insurance are now often stunningly high, even for those who have really good jobs. I think those costs might shock those of us who had excellent coverage at no, or very low, cost when we were working.

Continuing protection for pre-existing conditions could be taken away if insurance companies continue to be given more and more power. The protection of pre-existing conditions under the ACA changed many lives for the better.

The complete privatization of Medicare is a goal of those in bed with insurance companies. I like choice which would be taken away if insurance companies end up holding all the cards, which is what total privatization would mean.

We need common sense, fair solutions for our nation’s healthcare problems, solutions with access, affordability, options, and choice. Insurance companies should be included, but not given complete control.

The answers are there, in the middle somewhere, with communication and problem solving skills. But not in grand sweeping gestures or in corrupt backdoor palm-greasing.

I have several friends living in Canada, France and The UK. I have spoken to each one of them about their system, and they love it. Their systems are more of a social democracy, and as I understand it, they are still market based. Yes, they pay higher taxes, but I wonder if anyone did a cost comparison between the amount of taxes paid vs. the cost of insurance. Just yesterday I had to pay $100 for a generic drug, because of the donut hole system. And it seems most dentists don't take insurance, or they don't take UHC insurance, and so we just had to pay over $700 for an initial visit.

Ever buy fuel or alcohol in Canada ? 4 times Us price
nothings free all has cost

I agree with you boomer, moderately speaking that those Americans that like their insurance should keep it, along with improvements with ACA.

So I looked that up. NETHERLANDS: For 2019 the income tax rate for someone making 50K US = 44K Euro is abt 7K Euro or just short of 8K USD. Whereas 2/3 of 50K would be 33K USD. There are no local income taxes, no additional soc security or Medicare taxes in Netherlands, and the top marginal income tax rate is 51%
Belgium is slightly higher taxes. The marginal rate at 50K USD is 45%. There are some local and SSec taxes. The average Belgian pays 42% taxes. The average American pays 26%. This does not include adjustments for employers' payments.

US healthcare cost is now at over 11K per person per year That alone is 22% of that 50K person's income taxed from 1st dollar earned. And if we are only talking about one wage earner in a family of 4, a total of 44K spent on health care with a 50K income. This is why something needs to change.

I cringe whenever I hear someone say that there should be a "public option" for Government health insurance, and that those who like their employer insurance should be allowed to keep it. I just don't think that would work. I think employers would do whatever they could to encourage or force employees to switch to the Government insurance. So, there would be no employer insurance.

Using GasBuddy:
Gasoline Niagara Falls Canada 1.10/liter = 4.20 C$/USGal or 3.20 US dollars per US gallon
Niagara Falls US 2.60/gal
3.2 is NOT 4 times 2.6

Alcohol prices are harder to compare as it depends of beer vs wine vs spirits etc. But I found this:
24 cans of Bud in Quebec in 2019 costs abt 21 USD Looks like that same item is 19 USD at Walmart


Again not 4 times the cost. Not even close.

Whatever the government estimates the cost of Medicare for All, free college, or any other programs they wish to be in charge of you can be sure, as their past and present performance proves, the costs will be nowhere what they estimate, and the efficiencies necessary to keep performance in line will be non existent. Don’t drink the Kool-Aide they are offering.

And I'm sure you already know the answer to your question. For the wealthiest of the wealthy, for the 1% and the 0.1% the very best health care in the world is here. So if cost is absolutely not a concern to the health care consumer, come here and spend a lot of money for a likely very good outcome. Mick didn't fly here on Spirit airlines in a middle seat in his Walmart jeans either. No one is arguing that the quality of care in the US for those with excellent insurance and no problems with copays and coinsurance and out of pocket deductibles is very good. The discussion about whether we need to rework our health care payment system is about regular Americans with regular jobs and mortgages for whom the copays and the deductibles and the coinsurance are ruinous.
Those living in the Villages are not typical Americans. You are getting your health care for very low cost. You are very wealthy with retirement savings, pensions, large IRAs etc.
Most Americans, yes most, do not have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency.

I think the majority of people living in The Villages are far from well off. I think they have carefully saved and carefully planned and stringently sacrificed to live here. There are indeed wealthy people living here as well. One of the things I like most about this place is that no one seems concerned about how much money other people have or don't have.

There are all kinds of fairy tales about socialized medicine and education in this world. For instance, College education is free in Austria, IF you are smart enough to get in.

Admission requirements for studies at university in Austria

Will not happen in this generation. Why, the focus is on the wrong side of the equation. Health Insurance is expensive because health care costs are expensive. Those " Other " Countries who have Free health Care also have taxes at 50 % or higher. most cases medical school is free and Drs are paid a set salary. The foundation of those health care systems are far different then graduating with Medical School debt, average is near $500,000, paying malpractice insurance to survive in an aggressive Litigious USA, a For profit system based largely on a fee for service, medical costs are not transparent, predictable, consistent or challenged by common market forces of competition. The list goes on for the cost of health care that is out of control. Lastly, Big Pharma, Big Hospital, Big Dr Lobbyist will buy the votes needed to bury any changes that will effect $$$$$. What Say You Rick Scott ?? Stay Healthy !

Here is the fact that most people don't consider when discussing universal health care. It works - sort of- in countries that have a population in which most adults are productive and pay their version of income tax and (usually) a value added tax.

I cant work in the US where only about half of the citizens actually pay income tax and there is no VAT. There just aren't enough rich folks around to pay the cost. Latest estimate from Sen Warren is 57 Trillion over 10 years that she claims will be paid by the rich and corporations.

And in addition, there are those with pre-existing conditions with little or no insurance, until ACA was introduced, but those benefits have dwindled as we speak!

Why don’t we make more doctors? 12 years to graduate high school. 4 years of medical school 2 to 4 years residency and 2 years internship. 20-22 years of education, go into debt at least $100,000 to open an office and that pay outrageous malpractice insurance...I could go.

:bigbow:

Medical malpractice insurance premiums are ridiculously high in the US which of course dramatically drives up the costs of medical care for which the consumer ultimately pays. Thank the tort bar. Malpractice awards are capped at reasonable sums in most countries.

I don't know where you got the information that Germany has universal healthcare but it is incorrect. My wife was born in Germany and all her family live there. In Germany if you work you are required to buy healthcare insurance, it is deducted from your pay. You can select the level of coverage and deductibles but there is a difference in premiums depending on coverage. The higher the coverage and lower the deductibles the higher the premium. If someone is unemployed, indigent or disabled there is health care for those people provided by the government. Many years ago it used to be there was universal "free" medical care in Germany but it became too expensive and laws were changed to require working people to buy insurance.
I've posted this before, my brother-in-law pays 50% taxes on his annual income, there is a VAT of 20% on everything you purchase, gasoline is close to $7 a gallon, and he also has to pay an income tax at the end of the year.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Based on what you said universal healthcare in the UK is inferior to the system in the US. Doesn't say much for the idea of universal healthcare if it can't provide top level medical care. I had coronary artery by-pass surgery at Valderbilt Hospital in Nashville which is a nationally recognized leader in cardiac care. I couldn't pay Mick Jager's dry cleaning bill but I received top notch care. Is our system perfect, no, but neither is theirs.

My wife has spoke with a few Canadian citizens and they said their medical system worked great, if you were healthy and young. For older, sicker people it wasn't so great. For expensive diagnostic tests such as CAT scans, MRI, and other similar tests there is a waiting period. A person can't just get those tests done the next day like here. If you are really at risk in the doctor's opinion a patient can have the test done earlier, but it requires the doctor to make a judgement call as to how urgent it needs to be done. Then that is then reviewed by someone in the hierarchy to make their determination how urgent it is. How much do you trust a doctor's best guess as to how sick you are, based on no test results to back up his best guess?

Based on what I read on one of the MSM news sites, her plan assumes a rollback of the Trump tax cuts which means middle income people WILL pay more in taxes. She might not see a "tax cut rollback" as a tax increase, but anybody with a brain knows it is.

She also wants to pay all doctors at Medicare rates. Many doctors don't take Medicare at all and some take a limited number of Medicare patients because Medicare reimbursements are so pathetic. So some doctors, especially highly paid, in-high-demand ones, will ONLY take cash patients (meaning wealthier people, who can afford to pay cash for treatment).

Also, many people who might otherwise go into medicine will no longer be willing to spend 10 or 15 years of their life to become a physician at which point they will owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in school loans and make a fraction of what doctors used to make. After all, anyone who can get through medical school can become a vet, a CPA, a software developer, or any number of other things and not have their income limited by the government.

Our medical system needs some help but her plan is not the way to do it.

kathy

For those that don't know what 57 trillion dollars is, it would more than double the current Federal budget. So, if it were paid for across the board, everyone who pays taxes would need to pay more than two times what they are now paying, and, even then, the annual deficit would increase from 1 trillion per year to 2 trillion per year.

Instead of tearing down the system we now have, which isn't perfect by any means, and replacing it with a system with it's own flaws, lets fix the problems with what we have now. Do you even realize the chaos and disruption that would occur if we eliminated the current system and tried to establish a new one? I don't even want to think about it.

I agree with all you say. Just quoting what Warren has said to illustrate the potential cost and - not that I believe it or endorse it.

I have worked with people from Europe and Canada. They love their healthcare system. In a perfect world, Universal Healthcare is a great solution. But, you have to be willing to accept the "cost." Countries with universal healthcare don't have the defense budget we have. Plus, don't be naive and think corporations and wealthy individuals will just "get taxed more and carry the burden." Corporations will move their HQ overseas. Wealthy individuals will either move to another country or find new tax shelters. How many corporations/wealthy individuals pay no taxes now. Do you honestly think that will change?
What I would hate to see is a two tiered system... most of us are under a universal healthcare system, and the wealthy are able to access physicians who have opted out of the universal system.

Here in UK, our youngest daughter was referred, had all tests etc. was diagnosed, and started treatment for breast cancer in under three weeks.
She has now been clear for past seven years.

This year my wife has been waiting eight months to see an eye specialist for her cataracts. Two appointments were cancelled days before they were due, and the next available date was in mid December.
We decided to pay for private treatment, and saw the specialist four days after the initial call.
We could have had the first cataract removed next week, seven days from first consultation, but it was too close to our departure to US. for any follow ups required.
We have booked to have the surgery done seven days after we return next year from our winter stay in TV.

Treatment with a Universal Healthcare system is good, but has it's flaws.
People are living longer, and the lists get longer each year.
It is not good for the elderly with age related problems, eg. hip, knee replacement, eye surgery. Waiting lists are long.
The system consumes money, and is Admininistration top heavy.
Most finance seems to be sucked into Admin, before reaching the front line.
Overhaul is desperately needed, but our NHS is a political hot potatoe, and both sides are loathe to take the step to do so.
So Governments keeps throwing money at it, basicly sticking plasters, instead of major surgery.

Liken it to gun laws in USA!!

I would like to see some of our Canadian residents weigh in on this subject.

No...!
 

I hope not. In my experiences at least the Canadian system sends thousands to the United States for care due to lack of equipment. Wait times for MRI or other routine issues here can take months if not years if the government decides it isn't urgent. They also pay three taxes on everything to pay for it. Boo!

Competition will keep costs down and increase quality. Insurance companies should be allowed to sell policies in other states, and groups of people/businesses should be allowed to negotiate insurance rates and coverage across state lines. This is what the commerce clause in the U.S. Constitution addresses. The Trump administration, along with Sen. Rand Paul, is addressing these issues. Trump and Sen. Rand Paul lead the way on healthcare reform

Now was that comment really necessary? :ohdear:

Steve

I totally agree. But, it is amazing to me how many people believe that the opposite is true. They think that turning over health care to the Federal Government and eliminating competition will result in more efficiency and lower cost. Having worked as an Inspector General in the Federal Government, I observed what happens when you turn over billions of taxpayer dollars to Government employees. There is enormous waste. The money gets wasted because many of them don't view it as real money that hard working people actually worked for and earned. It becomes like Monopoly money to them.

So, how does Medicare fit in this discussion? Should it be abandoned and all aged 65 and over be forced to buy private insurance on the market place, if they could get it? That would surely help solve the budget deficit.