Vaccine "Passports"?
 

I'd like to respectfully throw something out there for discussion and perhaps we can learn a bit from each other.

Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports which would require us to prove we've been vaccinated in order to gain access to some businesses, offices, or restaurants.

I find it interesting because it speaks to how we all want the best for our country; we just approach it in different ways. Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal to ban vaccine passports. Liberals are generally okay with government regulation but do indeed want a vaccine passport which DeSantis is opposing, and as such, DeSantis is in favor of imposing government regulation.

Just goes to show modern American life is not all cut and dried. We all have to give a little.

If you want to respond but feel the need to be belligerent or snarky, please move on to the next thread. Thanks.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Says He'll Ban Vaccine Passports

How do you deal with people that have not been vaccinated but have herd immunity or have recovered from COVID 19.. Just testing them once for COVID 19 would not be enough.

The idea of "vaccine passports" is contradictory with what the vaccine advocates contend is true. They contend that people who get the vaccine will be safe from catching and transmitting the virus. If this premise is true, then they should have no worry about being around someone who hasn't had the vaccine. Perhaps the person had the virus and recovered with no problems... in which case, their immunity is probably as good as someone who had the vaccine. Even if they haven't had the virus, the unvaccinated person is the one at greater risk by being there than the vaccinated person, so why should they be prohibited from any public place?

To expand on what I said above, if an individual feels that they are particularly vulnerable to the virus, then why wouldn't it be THEIR responsibility to stay out of public places or take extra precautions such as double masking in order to protect themselves? Why should someone whose personal risk level from the virus is way less than 1% be prohibited from being in a public place just because some particularly vulnerable person doesn't feel safe?

Shouldn't self protection be the primary responsibility of the individual rather than placing the burden upon society to protect them by giving up their own freedoms?

If this was just an individual issue, I would agree with you. However, all these policies and procedures were instituted to minimize a worldwide pandemic that could have killed hundreds of millions. There is a huge difference between public health measures and individual health.

I foresee vaccine passports for more than just covid. Yes, children are required to be vaccinated to enter school, but what about for HPV? Flu? Shingles? I'm sure there's more. Where is the line drawn? No, I'm not a supporter.

Puhleeese! The "line is to be drawn" would be at COVID and only COVID which is currently the ONLY international pandemic still spreading worldwide and the only one in 100 years. None of your other examples are even close to what is happening.

In any case, my opinion to the question asked is I don't care either way whether they do or don't. Not really a BFD. All our personal information is available everywhere with just a little effort so this wouldn't matter 1 iota.

naw, you are missing the point. Covid, a worldwide pandemic, has killed more people in 12 months than HPV, Flu, Shingles, etc has in 50 years.

And many countries will require it anyway - plus airlines, cruiseships, etc...

Reality is, I'm a fan of the Governor, but this policy - having the vaccine and the passport - is the fastest way to get the world on track

Nobody has herd immunity. The only way the herd is immune is when enough people have been immunized or have natural immunity from having been infected. Those are the only two options. As of today no one knows how long the protection from infection or immunization lasts. No one knows how well infection or immunization will protect against the mutations which are continuously emerging. But knowing the patient has been vaccinated is the best indicator we have at this point that the person is not likely to become ill or infectious. So if the public health goal is to minimize further spread of Covid and we are going to place large numbers of people in situations where we know spread is accelerated [ships, airplanes, gyms] then having a way to document who is as safe as possible to in those environments is a good public health measure.

If we had a way to produce a certificate that accurately said "This person is a reliable hand washer and will not likely spread E. coli or Hepatitis A" it would be a reasonable requirement to demand for a restaurant worker. A Covid passport would be a certificate that says "this person is unlikely to spread Covid to others" Public health does trump personal "freedom". This is the 100th anniversary of the case of Mary Mallon losing her freedom for the safety of the public.

And mandatory vaccination have been upheld several times by the Supreme Court in the interest of public safety.

Walmart, Publix, Panera etc. can't even enforce their mask requirements, do you really think these businesses are going to check everybody's papers. Vaccine Passports are a pipe dream, it's never going to happen move on.

Great responses so far but none are getting to the heart of what I intended to be the matter. And that is...in this case conservatives are supporting government regulation. And government regulation is contradictory to their guiding principles.

On the other hand, liberals, who don't mind government regulation and expect a lot of it, ironically are against this proposed government regulation.

The point is there is no black and white. Both sides want the best for our country, but we approach it differently. This is proof we overlap.

This wasn't intended to be about the pros and cons of a vaccine passport, but carry on as you wish.

What you're looking for is a political answer in which most of us have learned our lessons by way of infractions. :1rotfl:

No, you do not "have it correct."

This is no different from the vaccine cards many international travelers already have, in order to do that travelling. There are countries that require you to have proof of immunity or vaccination to specific illnesses, before they'll let you in.

That's what this is about. It's about travel to and from the USA. It could also be very useful for kids going to public school - since proof of immunization is required in public school systems all over the country anyway. Might as well keep it all on one simple coded card that you can just scan whenever necessary and they'd know immediately you're not Typhoid Mary Version 2021.

I'm a social liberal, fiscal conservative. I'm pro-capitalism. And I think vaccine passports are an excellent idea. I'd sign up to get one if it meant a shorter wait time at the airport or at the cruise ship pre-boarding process hall.

Vaccine Passport doesn't seem much different than TSA PreCheck, Global Entry or Clear. All their purposes are to get you through a specific point faster, more conveniently and before others without the right paperwork. I'll bet if the government charged $100 for a Vaccine Passport you'd be waiting in line for hours to get one so you can beat the wait to get on a plane or boat or bus. :1rotfl:.

Vaccine passport to go shopping is a whole different ballgame.

Yet large numbers of people are willing to trample on and diminish EVERYONE'S liberty and freedom based on a vaccine of unproven durability and because of fear of something that at worst has taken the lives of about two-tenths of one percent of the population of this country... mostly consisting of the elderly with several comorbidities, about half of which were already in nursing homes.

How quickly and easily we give up that which so many of our ancestors fought and died to preserve. Very sad. :cry: :cry:

Vaccine passport to go shopping is only a thing invented by fringe alt-I-don't-even-know-which-end to scare people into thinking the concept of vaccine cards, WHICH ALREADY EXIST, is evil and needs to be rejected.

It's not a thing. It's fake news conspiracy nonsense.

And we still have to wear masks according to Fauci.

It's not everyone's liberty and freedom. The vaccine cards ALREADY EXIST. Many international travelers ALREADY have them, for other vaccines. If you want to go THERE, then THOSE PEOPLE THERE want proof that you won't spread a deadly illness in their direction. You're welcome to stay where you are, no one is forcing you to go there. THEY have the freedom to say "you're not invited." So stop trying to jump on their freedom.

No, we don't "have to" wear masks. He recommends it. But we don't have to. Although businesses might require you to anyway. And here's the fun part: even if Fauci says "you know what - it's time. Everyone remove your masks!" businesses can STILL require that you wear them.

The State of Florida has never mandated masks. Even while Fauci urged everyone to wear them.

As well as hundreds (thousands?) of other virologists and scientists. If you have cable TV there is more than 1 channel to watch ... and as OBB said "he doesn't and didn't say you HAVE to."

That may be YOUR understanding of "Vaccine Passports", but it clearly isn't the topic of this thread as clearly stated by the OP when he wrote "Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports which would require us to prove we've been vaccinated in order to gain access to some businesses, offices, or restaurants."

So what part of "businesses, offices, or restaurants" do you think pertains to international travel? I don't think the OP or the governor were talking about international flight... but feel free to change the subject if you like.

Interesting that you say that. That's why I come to TOTV - usually, the discussion here is a bit more erudite than Facebook, that is, when people are not being condescending or snarky here. Facebook, on the other hand, is getting intolerable, imo.

That's the tradeoff as I see it. The discussions here are usually more intellectual and better written and thought out, but they are often more negative, insulting, snarky and condescending than most of what I see on Facebook.

The Miami Heat NBA team has proposed having two kinds of seating areas. One where all the fans have been vaccinated where seating will not be spaced out, and another area for non-vaccinated people where social distancing will be required. This plan allows a private business to increase its income and at the same time reduce risk of Covid spread in the arena. This is exactly the kind of thing DeSantis wants to prohibit and is asking for the GOP controlled legislature to make Florida law beyond his planned executive order. He also plans to prohibit any local government from having a passport plan because in this situation he doesn't believe in local control. He also will prohibit airlines from requiring a passport to fly. Flights to many destinations including Hawaii already require a negative recent Covid PCR test to fly. Nobody asked DeSantis's permission to create that requirement.

So that's where we are now in Florida.

Seems to me, when I applied for my passport 40 years ago, I was not required to show anything save proof of citizenship. I can present my passport and fly to the Caribbean or Europe if the borders to that country are open. I am not required to show proof of any immunizations. I can fly anywhere within THIS country without proof of immunization.
Vaccine passports are an absurd overreaction to covid19.

The European Union is going to introduce some sort of passport for aproved vaccines and free travel in Europe.

Because the unvaccinated person may come into contact with another unvaccinated person. Thats why. Plus, some people have medical reasons why they cant get the vaccine and the uvaccinated may come into contact with them. Theres many many reasons. And besides, whats the big deal getting the vaccine. There are mandatory vaccines for kids entering school so why is a vaccine for a world pandemic not a reason to get it

Because wearing a mask doesnt protect the wearer! It protects others from them. This has been explained since the start of the pandemic

Conservatives?
 

Well, conservatives supporting the vaccine ID cards is news to me. I'm conservative, and most of my friends are as well, and none of us support the vaccine ID cards. My guess is that MOST, but not all, conservatives would NOT agree with such a proposal.

Is that all it means?????

Because all the buzz is that you will be REQUIRED to have one to travel, go to stadiums, restaurants etc---which IMHO is a violation of the first amendment and probably the 4th, 9th, and 10th as well

Agreed

And I'd be mighty irritated if my vacation was impacted by somebody who refused to get a vaccine and then got sick.

100% proof of vaccination or you don't travel. Very Simple.

Doesn't matter - it's a public health risk - hence the Supreme Count ruling thath a vaccine can be made mandatory.

They want us to protect those who aren't vaccinated, in case we can carry the virus.

No Vac Passports.
 

Wear the mask
Vaccinated or not
Till the Covid virus is no longer with us.
Work diligently at vaccinating any one who wants it.
Spoke to someone in Canada yesterday.
She will not vaccinate because it is aborted babies stuff to change our DNA.
Absolute nonsense from a very good friend.
Mask up at all times
get vaccinated or not
and shut up about it.

I absolutely do not agree that we should be required to have vaccine passports for everyday life. Period we have had many viruses and contagions over the years and NEVER have we required this and I will not start now! I have worked all along through this without a vaccine and never got Covid. If a mask protects you, then why the vaccine and if the vaccine protects you why the mask. This is getting ridiculous for a virus that has a 98% survival rate.

There is public health risks every day and has been since the beginning of time, It’s unbelievable how people have become so gullible, you could have been standing in an elevator with someone who had TB 5 years ago. It’s called brainwashed.

If your protected by the vaccine then why do you care? Apparently you don’t trust it..

Idiotic idea-----Very Simple

Why?????
Because even those that are vaccinated may be in the 5% that do not acquire immunity (or 20+% with J&J or Astra-Zeneca), and then there is the question of how long that immunity lasts. So someone gets the vaccine, gets the "passport", and then we still don't know if they are any different than the unvaccinated. And they are certainly less protected than those who had COVID and recovered, but not vaccinated.
How long is the "passport" good for? Renew every what? 3 months,6 months, year? How do you get "100% proof" that a person previously vaccinated is still immune? The "experts" tell us that the antibody test is not valid for that purpose, it is only a marker of previous infection or vaccination. (If it is like most antibody tests, immunity would be dependent upon the titer, usually a 1:32 dilution is adequate, but this is a novel virus and I don't think this has been studied)

So playing out this "passport" scenario, it would be entirely possible, even likely, that someone who has been vaccinated (but did not acquire immunity), has the paperwork to travel, shop, eat out , etc. , while the person next to him in line without the "passport" but is totally immune by virtue of previous infection is denied those privileges. Same with someone whose did acquire immunity, has the "passport", but enough time has passed that their immunity has faded.

Add to the ineffectiveness of such a "passport" plan is the enormous task of actually enforcing it. Most retail stores that currently REQUIRE a mask do not challenge customers who are not wearing one. Imagine the difficulty with something as invasive as a vaccine?