Ford lost $32,000 per ev in 2nd quarter
 

This does not seem to be a sound business plan!!

Ford Loses Over $32,000 Per EV During The Second Quarter, Shifts Production Goals | Carscoops

The dirty secret that no one is talking about is not how much money they lose per EV. Its how few EV's are being sold!. This article is somewhat misleading as it says they sold 30,000 EV's in Q2, that includes hybrids. True EV sales are app 5,000 per the quarter. Outside of the Ford Lightning pickup truck (at $110,000) they are selling almost No EV's.

Ford had an Edsel too. Yeah, always “pulling” for American car company. I pass on their stock too.

As tough as GM, Ford, Stellantis is - and DEFINITELY will be in the near future, VW is tilting toward short term hurt. Their sales in China are WAY down and they have little in the way of EVs. Nissan is worse. Matter of fact even all Japanese makers are in very tough shape financially. Toyota was WAY late to the EV, betting on ICE and Hybrids. Korean car mfrs look good and ahead with EVs.

As said USA cos LOSE mega$$$ on each EV they manage to sell. Tough road ahead for each.

Tesla... well they have the inside track and lightyears ahead of competition. Now Chinese EV mfrs, watch out - they ARE coming. Europe will prob put serious taxes on Chinese imported EVs. And at some point the USA will too.

Yea but this is all based on the assumption that people want EV's.

EV vehicles are the future of the automotive industry. If we don't make them, they will come from China or somewhere else.

Not if companies cannot make money making and selling them.

BTW do you folks realize that there is still a 25% tariff on all stuff coming here from China?

While definitely not an EV fan, I believe you must use care in using data like the above. It likely does not mean that each new EV car costs Ford $32,000 more that the sell price. I would strongly suspect that number reflects the incremental cost of each new EV plus a share of the huge developmental cost incurred based upon dividing development costs by quantity sold.

You have to expect that companies don't blindly sell at a price below incremental cost. They may have a plan the shows recovery of development costs within a projected sales volume. Sales lagging that projection could be a major problem.

My only caution is that use the term loss of $32,000 may have a different meaning.

Tesla has the tech and charging infrastructure. Big 3 and many euro and Japan auto companies do not. And all of them will slowly die. Disruptive tech which they all were too slow to adopt.

Tesla, China, and prob Korean firms will thrive.

I don’t understand the accounting details but I would assume that the EV is a separate division and that the costs are x and the income is y. The costs clearly exceed the income so you divide the losses by the number of vehicles sold to determine the loss per vehicle.

But perhaps we have some people who worked in the automotive industry that can explain how these losses are calculated.

Even NPR says that Ford is losing money on EVs.

Ford's CEO is staking its future on electric cars : NPR

As usual….someone only reads the headline and not the article. :oops:

The millions of apartment residents that park outside are supposed to charge their EV’s where? Will these complexes be required to have a charging station for each apartment? I stop at Charging Station, let’s say WAWA future, and I get in line behind 2 cars waiting to quick charge at 20-30 minutes each. Would you have purchased a home in The Villages if the golf courses, pickleball and tennis courts, recreation centers, etc., etc., were not here and this promised infrastructure would be coming in the future? Same way I feel about purchasing an electric vehicle without the promised infrastructure in place. The difference is an intelligently planned Villages Community, and an unintelligent and inefficient Government process.

I just don't get all of you EV haters out there. No one is forcing you to get one and by the time combustion engines are finally prohibited we will all be long dead.

About all parts come from China and assembled elsewhere, they’re no American made vehicles. Little big 3 can’t compete with 5.25 or less labor costs. Only some are assembled in America and most of them are foreign which don’t have to deal with UAW. The once big 3 (really only 2 now anyway) will figure it out sometime in future. Just like the steel and textile industries did.

You’re right most of use will dead long before EV’s can go 600 miles and be charged by next day to continue on trip. IMO hybrid makes more sense at least for next 20 years for masses. And no most can’t afford Tesla’s which may be able to go 200 miles in sub freezing weather if lucky? Then, there the salt belt which even gasoline vehicles can verily make it 5 years before the frames, body panels, and wiring decay. what do you think salt belt will do to EV?

I have owned a tesla, fantastic car. Most of the time charged it at home. It only becomes a problem on a long range trip. So far, when I used it that way, it wasn’t too bad but what happens when you have too many of them and not enough infrastructure for recharging? Until new battery technology comes around, a chargeable hybrid is the best transition vehicle. So why are people, particularly the administration, pushing a technology that would strip the earth of the minerals to provide these batteries? Why would anyone hold a meeting of car manufacturers of electric cars and not invite Elon Musk? I can only assume brainless zombies are making these decisions because they are so stupid.

We don't hate EV's. Just like we don't hate electric golf carts. (Except for the fact you get subsidies and avoid taxes for highway maintenance).For many EVs are a good fit for their transportation needs.

What we HATE is the dictatorial mandates set in place that will eventually eliminate ICE vehicles. This will have a catastrophic impact on the mobility we take for granted today.

This is because the electrical grid CAN NOT begin to handle the increased demand if most vehicles on the road are EVs. Plus renewables as an energy source for base load plants is a joke. Also the charging times will turn driving into a much more stressful experience because of the challenge of not running low on charge. And during winter, EVs performance drops dramatically.

Until they have solid state batteries and mini nukes to ensure a stable grid then forcing everyone to drive an EV will have catastrophic impact on our standard of living and way of life. Well on second thought, maybe that is the true objective.

We are not haters of EV only the fact that they want to eliminate gas and diesel powered vehicles. The inconvenience of road trips in EV is your decision I want gas powered cars.

I will never own an EV in my life. I’m not at all convinced they help our environment as to what goes into their batteries. I agree with another comment, large condo and apartment complexes have huge parking lots that must accommodate over 300 cars. There is no way they would have the electrical grid system to be able to put in 300 charging stations let alone the huge enormous cost. Also, what about people that live in cities and do not have parking garages or spots at all? They park randomly on the street. Our winter home is in a big city and you just have to park your car on the street. an EV car would never work in those circumstances and that’s how thousands upon thousands live. Once there is any electrical overload, we would have problems. There are already many communities and towns across the country where they’re being told that electricity is becoming such a problem that they are given hours that they can only run the dishwasher and washing machines during the day. How in the world can EV cars added to this this work?

They lose money on every unit, but they make it up in volume😜

Toyota has announced it will have a model with a cruising range of about 620 miles in 2026, and is working on one that would have a potential 930 mile range. And they are making changes in production which will lower manufacturing costs. But I agree, hybrids really make sense right now. Why wouldn't someone want a vehicle that gets 50 mpg around town and you don't have to plug it in to recharge?

EV's are the future if you want to save the planet for future generations. All startups have initial problems and losses.

They are conditioned to hate them by the media they watch. The same thing has happened with LED lights

It is so much easier to make condescending remarks than actually using logic and reason to validate your opinion, isn't it?

We're talking fixed costs and variable costs. The cost of developing the assembly lines, equipment and battery development are being amortized over anticipated production units rather than the actual units produced. Because Ford's sales of EV units were very low these fixed costs divided by units sold plus variable costs cause a cost per car way in excess of sales price. When and if the units sold increase the theory is they will produce a per car profit. The same math will apply to battery costs. As units sold go up the cost per battery will go down.

But Ev sales will not go up significantly without an increase in battery range.

This is what happens when you allow a political administration, that knows nothing about business, to influence your decisions.

Very well said

That's the intent of EV vehicles the average person commutes less than 40 miles daily. My current hybrid averages 60+ on highways at 70mph getting around 650 on a full tank. My travels New England to TV just under 20 gallons of fuel.

You know I worked for Ford for 38 yrs. & I always wonder why they wouldn’t give their employees a nickle for a good suggestion but they’ll spend millions to retool for something that all they had to do is think about all the cons that will arrive, now they’re scratching their head thinking, Duh, I don’t need to tell them because I’m just a dumb employee & they let their experts figure it out, didn’t sound like they thought this out very good or they thought they didn’t have to listen to the pro’s that they made us listen to!

EV's
 

The Cart before the Horse

Crazy
 

Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

Expand your thinking about EVs
 

[QUOTE=The Chipster;2257925]Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

Expected to Lose $21K
 

The real story, as the article explains, is that Ford expected to lose $21k but have been losing $32,000 so Ford is adjusting production accordingly.

[QUOTE=The Chipster;2257928]Exactly!

Spot on. The Big 3 and others in Europe and Japan are on deaths door. By 2030, max, there will be drastic changes in auto firm. Most will be out of business or scratching for minimal profits. Only those fully invested in EV tech or closely there will survive. And when this new labor deal goes thru, the door is closer.

The UAW wants to make the most of it right now as they know they will be depleted in a few years. Auto Cos will move to Right to Work states or China etc.

We are not “Green” but have an elec golf cart. And will order a new Tesla very soon to replace our perfectly OK ICE car. We test drove a Model 3 recently and… OMG. I now dislike our current car’s exhaust in the garage and noise starting. It’s a new world and we WILL be joining up. Tesla tech and charging capability is light years ahead of any other in the USA

Yes, your post IS hilarious!

Funny how the "early adopters" like to brag how "forward thinking" they are, but they fail to take into account that they are the few who are able to charge their EVs at home, in the comfort of their garage... They are able to pay $thousands more for an EV when most Americans are struggling to purchase ANY new car. Elitism at it's finest!

No one is saying that EVs won't be the vehicles of the future. They are saying that RIGHT NOW, we are not ready for what the government is not only suggesting, but forcing people to to... And they are saying that they won't be the ONLY vehicles of the future...

No problem with "investing in the game". But do it wisely. Make sure you have the infrastructure in place to accommodate all of the EVs they want us to but.

So far, I don't see that happening. Ignoring the problems that were posted (such as where apt and condo dwellers are supposed to charge their EVs, and the lack of available electricity to charge the increased number of EVs) is foolish. Some might even call it "hysterical...

I was picked up by an Uber driver in a Tesla Model 3 the other day. I have to say, I was unimpressed... No better/worse than any other similar size vehicle I've ridden in...

But if you like yours... Great!

As to your "Death's Door" prediction... With the number of Lexuses, Acuras, Camarys, and Accords I see on the road, I doubt those predictions are accurate...

I have an electric golf cart (lithium ion). Works perfect for what I need it for. Golf course and back. Square and back. Grocery store and back. Plug it into a 110 outlet when I get home, full charge by morning. Right tool for the right job.

My car is ICE, for the same reasons. Right tool for the right job. EV is not ready to replace my ICE for what I need my ICE to do - Go long distances, refuel quickly, multiple fueling stations every few miles, solid, proven 100 year+ technology that keeps improving.

Hybrid? Sure. Pure EV? Not ready for my lifestyle. I don't care what anyone drives. But the heavy hand of government should not be pushing this faster than it is ready for most people's motoring needs.

If you want to go first, knock yourself out. I'll watch and see how it plays out, and make my decision at the appropriate time. No downside for me to wait.

Remember, the early bird gets the worm. But the second mouse gets the cheese.

Many say that no one wants an EV. Go to to a dealers lot and try to buy one or even test drive. They sell faster than they are being manufactured.

Assuming you are correct, and I disagree with a few of your points, you make an excellent case to wait and watch how this plays out as far as technology and who makes the best product.

If you were an early adopter of betamax, you were probably bummed when VHS won out. If you rushed to replace your vinyl collection with CD's, same thing when itunes and streaming came out. As well as if you invested in $1,000's in film cameras and your own development equipment. At the end Kodak couldn't give it away.

No reason to be the first person to buy such expensive technology that is still being developed. My newer ICE will easily run for another 10 years, I've got another one that is 22 years old, and still going strong. Unless the government decides to come and take them (gee, that wouldn't happen, would it?) I'm happy to watch and wait to see where this all lands.