[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Last time I checked, the Ryder Cup is match play....................in Match Play there is no requirement to even keep a scorecard.......

The walking scorer types in the scores for each hole for all playersr selectronically...........those scores are transmitted to the scoring tent computers automatically

A player keeps his score on the top of his scorecard and his opponents on the scorecard

Once done, they rip off their top portion of the scorecard and compare it to the card kept by the opponent

The scoring tent checks the card against the electronic and will mention any discrepancies, once sorted the player signs his scorecard, hard to do wrong here.

Then the player signs 2 golfballs and presents one to the electronic scorer and the other to another volunteer

It is really tough to sign a wrong scorecard unless you are ****ed off enough to blow it off. Nice to know it cost him at least 20,000$ which is close to last place money so it could have been more.

There is always a double check system in accounting and here even a triple check with the electronic scorers.........again, really, really hard to sign for a wrong score in these circumstances

The caddy lost money, he may not let Jordan do that again.............golf can get emotional to the point of negligence and stupidity

Why are you retyping the current process which I am not question the process?

just the why of the process, which is not needed

[karostay]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Why in today's world, with every group having a scorer, the camera men watching every hole, with web sites posting the scores, do the golfers themselves have to sign a card for their score?

So evidently they had the correct score from the scorer, so that they can compare the players' signed card against the scorers tally. . . and disqualify him. Otherwise, how would they know so quickly?

Seems like the old fashioned pre television, pre media blitz everywhere, rule that the traditionalists don't want to change, is really out of date. The rule about signing for yours and your opponents card is left over from the very old days when golfers went out alone, and the sport had to impose such rules to prevent dishonesty amongst the players.

That scenario doesn't exist in today's world, so maybe the rules of PGA tournaments need to be updated to the scorer keeping the score, so the players can focus on playing and not paperwork!

paperwork sucks

Poop Happens

[hawthorg]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I agree. That is why, on a par 3, I always aim a little to the left or right of the hole to avoid making a hole-in-one.

LOL....I think we all do that!

[Rich Iwaszko]

The process insures honesty..........and responsibility..........unlike most other sports.....

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Why are you retyping the current process which I am not question the process?

just the why of the process, which is not needed

[Rich Iwaszko]

Your opponent is the official scorekeeper...................the person walking along and keeping your score electronically is not the official scorekeeper. Its a smart double check, triple check system, to avoid cheating that occurs in many other sports.

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

That's the current process, I am not questioning the current process steps, but the need for that process to continue when you, the scorer, are sitting there with the official answers.

just more paperwork, which is what a player doesn't need to worry about after the day of golf. . . You think that the players sign for their card at the Ryder Cup?

The process should be that the player confirms the official score kept by the scorer, and has the opportunity to challenge / disagree with the official scorer (throws a red flag)

The situation with which I disagree, is when someone on the rules committee tells a golfer that hitting out of the bunker in a flying pile of sand, that he double hit the ball. The player, maybe named John Cook, says "I didn't feel any second hit, but if you say so!", then the player is not keeping his own scorecard, the scorer is, and you can't disagree with him. Again, you are just signing the card to confirm that the official score keeper is correct, nothing more. .

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Different game. Match Play and Medal Play have different rules and there is no "scorecard" in Match Play.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/ho...atch-play.html

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

I know, which was also my point . . . there is no scorecard, but there is an official scorer to track it. .

I don't believe that to be the case. The players themselves "keep score" ... usually witnessed by 1000's of people.

To suggest PGA Professionals shouldn't be burdened with keeping their score, is ludicrous on its face and there's hardly a professional golfer on earth, who would dispute that.

[jebartle]

Ho hum, my favorite player, won't be able to take millions home to Annie, Sammie and Sofia, and the sun will shine again! I think the guy that yells MASH POTATOES should be fined $1000, lol

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Ho hum, my favorite player, won't be able to take millions home to Annie, Sammie and Sofia, and the sun will shine again! I think the guy that yells MASH POTATOES should be fined $1000, lol

He's the heir to Rock'n Roland.

At least Roland was quiet.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

The process insures honesty..........and responsibility..........unlike most other sports.....

does no such thing, which is what everyone is missing. Not one player who has cheated or made an honest mistake has won a tournament, because the scorer checked the player's score against the official correct score for errors.

How does the stroke play scores get on the scoreboard for everyone to see?
from the scorer just like in match play.

When John Cook got assessed a penalty, regardless of the change since, Cookie didn't agree, but he had to go by what the official scorer told him his stroke count is. Again, not what the player would sign for as he didn't believe he hit the ball twice.

The point is, the official stroke count is kept by the scorer, and all the pga has to do is copy down what the official scorer has given them, which is what they check the score card against anyway, and have the PGA player sign the scorer's card which is electronically prepopulated from the scorer, so why the player paperwork when the official scorer has the final say and score?

because you all are arguing from a non bifurcated tradition point of view, and its time to get to the bifurcated sport, and just accept that PGA players play a different game for millions of $ than amateurs, who don't have electronic scorers, and have to rely on honesty. .

Everyone here is just parroting the traditional answers and the current process, without questioning whether performing the current process itself actually achieves the end goal.
The paperwork is totally unnecessary for the PGA tournaments with electronic score keeping and scorers. Even Marr on PGA radio made the same comment . . .

I guess none of you ever did much change management and transformation work from manual to digital, as this process would be one of the first in the corporate world. . .

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by hawthorg

LOL....I think we all do that!

Not me! My ball NEVER goes where I want it to. Hence, my first shot on every hole is aimed at the pin. Never had a hole in one! Never bought a round at the 19th hole! For me, unfortunately, that's braging. Still love the game, just not good at it.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

does no such thing, which is what everyone is missing. Not one player who has cheated or made an honest mistake has won a tournament, because the scorer checked the player's score against the official correct score for errors.

How does the stroke play scores get on the scoreboard for everyone to see?
from the scorer just like in match play.

When John Cook got assessed a penalty, regardless of the change since, Cookie didn't agree, but he had to go by what the official scorer told him his stroke count is. Again, not what the player would sign for as he didn't believe he hit the ball twice.

The point is, the official stroke count is kept by the scorer, and all the pga has to do is copy down what the official scorer has given them, which is what they check the score card against anyway, and have the PGA player sign the scorer's card which is electronically prepopulated from the scorer, so why the player paperwork when the official scorer has the final say and score?

because you all are arguing from a non bifurcated tradition point of view, and its time to get to the bifurcated sport, and just accept that PGA players play a different game for millions of $ than amateurs, who don't have electronic scorers, and have to rely on honesty. .

Everyone here is just parroting the traditional answers and the current process, without questioning whether performing the current process itself actually achieves the end goal.
The paperwork is totally unnecessary for the PGA tournaments with electronic score keeping and scorers. Even Marr on PGA radio made the same comment . . .

I guess none of you ever did much change management and transformation work from manual to digital, as this process would be one of the first in the corporate world. . .

Your post is incorrect on so many levels. Not really being a golfer and merely watching a tournament on TV, it's easy to confuse how things actually work.

There is no "official scorer" following groups around.

There is no "official scorer" telling you if you got a penalty.

The one and only "official scorer" on the PGA Tour, is the fellow competitor who has your scorecard and tasked with keeping your score. (If playing alone, it's the "Marker"). [In the Ryder Cup or Match Play Format you mentioned, there is no "marker", nor is there a fellow competitor. There are only opponents and/or partners]

If the "Marker" and the player disagree on individual hole scores, The Committee makes the decision. There is no one else to ask, although The Committee might seek anecdotal information from someone who might have information.

People who provide scoring information to "tournament central", TV or otherwise, are in most cases, volunteers. The people carrying the standards that reflect the groups scores, are volunteers. They are not "officials" in any sense of the world. If you ever attended a PGA Tour (or any tour) event early in the morning of the last day, some players go out alone, with only a Marker and no else in their "group". (Jeff Knox being the most famous in history.)

The ONLY entity who can impose a penalty or decide if a penalty is warranted, is the PGA Tour Rules Committee, (or in the case of a Major, "The Committee"). On course, PGA Rules Officials offer guidance, the Committee (who is essentially Gary Young, former Head Professional at Pleasant Valley CC, near Worcester, MA) is the ruling body.

[Rich Iwaszko]

Well put.................... one of the biggest instructions to a marker, a person who electronically punches in each shot and where it occurred is: YOU ARE NOT A RULES OFFICIAL AND WILL GIVE NO ADVICE TO A PLAYER... YOU WILL CALL IN A RULES OFFICIAL..............now if the marker is the only scorekeeper who checks them?

Fast forward to more local competitions....the cell phone has become the electronic marker.........but in the end, the scorecard is the final check point... I cant tell you how many times a marker has punched in the wrong number for a wrong person. what then.....double check and triple check works, just like when you peruse your receipt in at a restaurant. Human error is the bane of technology.....

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Your post is incorrect on so many levels. Not really being a golfer and merely watching a tournament on TV, it's easy to confuse how things actually work.

There is no "official scorer" following groups around.

There is no "official scorer" telling you if you got a penalty.

The one and only "official scorer" on the PGA Tour, is the fellow competitor who has your scorecard and tasked with keeping your score. (If playing alone, it's the "Marker").

If the "Marker" and the player disagree on individual hole scores, The Committee makes the decision. There is no one else to ask, although The Committee might seek anecdotal information from someone who might have information.

People who provide scoring information to "tournament central", TV or otherwise, are in most cases, volunteers. The people carrying the standards that reflect the groups scores, are volunteers. They are not "officials" in any sense of the world. If you ever attended a PGA Tour (or any tour) event early in the morning of the last day, some players go out alone, with only a Marker and no else in their "group". (Jeff Knox being the most famous in history.)

The ONLY entity who can impose a penalty or decide if a penalty is warranted, is the PGA Tour Rules Committee, (or in the case of a Major, "The Committee"). On course, PGA Rules Officials offer guidance, the Committee (who is essentially Gary Young, former Head Professional at Pleasant Valley CC, near Worcester, MA) is the ruling body.

[Golfer222]

I am sure Spieth blamed his caddie Michael- as he does for everything else

[justjim]

To err is human, to forgive divine. In Jordan’s case, forgive himself for such a dumb mistake.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

He's the heir to Rock'n Roland.

At least Roland was quiet.

Oh my!!!!!