[Madelaine Amee]

I think Tiger's problems go way back into his childhood. If you compare the type of upbringing that Jack had to that of Tiger, there is a huge difference in every way. Jack appears to have come from a very stable background whereas from the little we really know, Tiger appears to come from a very unstable background. IMHO he had enormous talent as a young child, and has been put on a pedestal from the time he was very young, I have to believe he was told he was a gift to the golfing world, and (I think) was pushed into the world of making huge money instead of staying in college and taking a more normal route. I am a firm believer in that we are a product of our environment...........

If he had gradually quit when his body started to fail he could have been a super star for the rest of his life, instead he is going to be remembered primarily for the "incident" which basically ruined his life. A terrible waste.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Paper1

...He did for golf what Ali did for boxing.

No way.

Tiger increased interest in golf, no doubt. But Arnie is the one who took golf from just another game to the major sport that it is today. If not for Arnie, Tiger would not have had the stage to perform on that he did.

[tomwed]

Arnie made the game respectable for WW2 blue collar workers. Remember the old black and white movies? Did those golfers remind you of your dad? Arnie did. That's when my dad picked up the game and took me along once or twice a year starting when I was 12.

In those days, you were lucky if your dad played catch with you and you talked sports. I got lucky. My dad would go to my little league games mostly to watch me sit the bench. The same with freshman football. My dad was easy to please.

Tiger's dad had him in training or allowed him to train since he could walk. He wore out his joints. Tiger completed a round of golf and won a golf tournament with a broken leg.
I'm sure other athletes would take that kind of punishment for the team but Tiger did that for himself. Why? There's something wrong with him upstairs.

He might be able to make a comeback.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

I think Tiger's problems go way back into his childhood. If you compare the type of upbringing that Jack had to that of Tiger, there is a huge difference in every way. Jack appears to have come from a very stable background whereas from the little we really know, Tiger appears to come from a very unstable background. IMHO he had enormous talent as a young child, and has been put on a pedestal from the time he was very young, I have to believe he was told he was a gift to the golfing world, and (I think) was pushed into the world of making huge money instead of staying in college and taking a more normal route. I am a firm believer in that we are a product of our environment...........

If he had gradually quit when his body started to fail he could have been a super star for the rest of his life, instead he is going to be remembered primarily for the "incident" which basically ruined his life. A terrible waste.

Huh?? We know a tremendous amount about Tiger's upbringing and there is nothing to suggest that it was in any way unstable. He had a loving father and mother. His father began bringing him to the golf course when he was very young and Tiger loved it. Earl Woods spent countless hour working with Tiger on his game. But only because Tiger loved doing it. He was never forced to go to the golf course. He looked forward to it every time his father would come home from work.
He still has a wonderful relationship with his mother who sometimes attends his tournaments.
I do believe that he has constantly tried to make too many "improvements" in his swing and they might have led to his over complicating things. In fact his breakup with Hank Haney came after Hank told him to stop worrying about his swing and start trying to improve his three putt avoidance stats. All of the complicated thoughts may be what has led to the chipping yips. Once you start trying to understand and analyze every movement you can tend to not let things just happen as they need to.
Tiger's work with Butch Harmon was productive and helped him a bit. When he got together with Hank Haney, upon the advice of Mark O'Meara, his game really came together. Hank worked on his plane a lot which was not great during his amateur career and his early professional career. After that and even in his last days with Hank, he began to get a bit too into the minutiae. The of course, a short time after that was the incident with his wife and the exposure of his somewhat seedy personal life. I really believe that after that, his min was never the same.

I don't think anyone is kicking anyone to the curb by the way. I was and still am a big Tiger fan. He did for golf in the minority communities and with youth what Arnie did for the blue collar workers. When Tiger played, golf interest among those two demographics exploded. The game grew as much during Tiger's peak years as it ever had. I know, I was in the business before and during the Tiger years.

I do think however that we can realistically look at what has happened to him in the past several years. He is certainly not the dominating force that he once was. Even before this latest comeback, he was not dominating. And, if he does indeed, as I suspect, have the chipping yips, the chances of him having another comeback are remote. I'd love to see him come back and break Jack's records, but sadly, I am having serious doubts that that will ever happen. I say that with sadness. Not in the spirit of kicking him to the curb.

[Paper1]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Arnie made the game respectable for WW2 blue collar workers. Remember the old black and white movies? Did those golfers remind you of your dad? Arnie did. That's when my dad picked up the game and took me along once or twice a year starting when I was 12.

In those days, you were lucky if your dad played catch with you and you talked sports. I got lucky. My dad would go to my little league games mostly to watch me sit the bench. The same with freshman football. My dad was easy to please.

Tiger's dad had him in training or allowed him to train since he could walk. He wore out his joints. Tiger completed a round of golf and won a golf tournament with a broken leg.
I'm sure other athletes would take that kind of punishment for the team but Tiger did that for himself. Why? There's something wrong with him upstairs.

He might be able to make a comeback.

Arnie was great for game but Tiger is the one who facilitated a flood of kids getting into a game. When I grew up golf was not for people in my family's income bracket. I suspect if you just looked at computer generated stats neither Jack of Arnie would match up with Woods. Just my opinion though.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Paper1

...I suspect if you just looked at computer generated stats neither Jack of Arnie would match up with Woods...

Not sure what stats you might be talking about...

If you look at stats describing play during their peak years, Arnie is not even close to Tiger. Jack vs Tiger would be a decent comparison I believe, but for those years Tiger was at his peak, I think he wins out over Jack too. Of course the biggie is major championships...not just my opinion, but that of Tiger and most truly great golfers also. Jack is number one. And it looks more and more unlikely that Tiger will reach that record.

But if you look at other stats, the story might be a bit different. Palmer won the PGA's Lifetime Achievement Award, as well as the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal His positive impact has been felt far beyond the world of golf. And through it all he remains very humble and accessible. Jack is (imho) a bit behind Arnie in such a comparison. But he also has always maintained his integrity and that of the game.

I'm not sure what kind of stats might be used to quantify this sort of comparison. But no matter how you decide to do it, Tiger isn't even in the same league as Arnie and Jack.

[tomwed]

Remember when he was only 2 years old and on the Mike Douglas show?
click here

[TheVillageChicken]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

Phil Mickelson has a different opinion.

I'll see your Phillie Mick and raise you a Norman

[Topspinmo]

IMO tiger problems started when he was hanging with the BB players. Bad habits come back to bit you sooner or later. Hype and media makes great golfers or brings them down. There will always be the one that should of or could of. But, due to self-destruction or pressure fold. Europeans are on top right now, just like Asian girls on the women tour. Amazing you don't here much about them over here. Was it Tiger the caused the invasion or the prize money? IMO both.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken

I'll see your Phillie Mick and raise you a Norman

I'll see your Norman and raise you Rory.