[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Again?!

YES, 100% of employees wages are paid by the customers! If you don’t prefer lower prices and a 20% tip then just automatically adjust prices up 20% and leave that higher amount rather than a tip.

Stereotyping in general is wrong but every once in a while the reason for a stereotype stands out.

I think that most people don't like the current tipping system and customs, except restaurant owners, as evidenced by this thread.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Again?!

YES, 100% of employees wages are paid by the customers! If you don’t prefer lower prices and a 20% tip then just automatically adjust prices up 20% and leave that higher amount rather than a tip.

Stereotyping in general is wrong but every once in a while the reason for a stereotype stands out.

The customer does not decide which server to hire, or which cook, or which grocer the restaurant buys from, therefore, the customer does not directly pay for these things. The customer pays for the food and drinks as they are listed on the menu. And the level of service provided. If the owner can’t make a profit, can’t pay for the groceries, can’t pay their employees - they should not be in business. But what they can do, is set the price for their food and drinks but not for the service - unless, I suppose, they could say - if you actually want the food to be brought to you so you can eat it too - that’ll cost an extra 20%. How is this not obvious?

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Velvet

The customer does not decide which server to hire, or which cook, or which grocer the restaurant buys from, therefore, the customer does not directly pay for these things. The customer pays for the food and drinks as they are listed on the menu. And the level of service provided. If the owner can’t make a profit, can’t pay for the groceries, can’t pay their employees - they should not be in business. But what they can do, is set the price for their food and drinks but not for the service - unless, I suppose, they could say - if you actually want the food to be brought to you so you can eat it too - that’ll cost an extra 20%. How is this not obvious?

I agree, but I would add that the restaurant cannot control the quality of service unless they are paying the servers, which apparently, they do not want to do. That is why I rarely even go to a sit down restaurant anymore.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Again?!

YES, 100% of employees wages are paid by the customers! If you don’t prefer lower prices and a 20% tip then just automatically adjust prices up 20% and leave that higher amount rather than a tip.

Stereotyping in general is wrong but every once in a while the reason for a stereotype stands out.

Originally Posted by Velvet

The customer does not decide which server to hire, or which cook, or which grocer the restaurant buys from, therefore, the customer does not directly pay for these things. The customer pays for the food and drinks as they are listed on the menu. And the level of service provided. If the owner can’t make a profit, can’t pay for the groceries, can’t pay their employees - they should not be in business. But what they can do, is set the price for their food and drinks but not for the service - unless, I suppose, they could say - if you actually want the food to be brought to you so you can eat it too - that’ll cost an extra 20%. How is this not obvious?

I have tried to explain it but I cannot make you understand it. The customer pays 100% of the employees wage whether through tipping or through higher menu prices.

If you don’t like the concept of tipping then just add 20% to the price and pay a higher menu prices.

But don’t demand the restaurant raise prices for all of us because you can’t understand. I prefer to have at least some small say in the quality of service I receive. I like to show my appreciation and I suspect I get remembered rewarded for that the next time I visit.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I have tried to explain it but I cannot make you understand it. The customer pays 100% of the employees wage whether through tipping or through higher menu prices.

If you don’t like the concept of tipping then just add 20% to the price and pay a higher menu prices.

But don’t demand the restaurant raise prices for all of us because you can’t understand. I prefer to have at least some small say in the quality of service I receive. I like to show my appreciation and I suspect I get remembered rewarded for that the next time I visit.

Apart from your first 2 sentences, I agree.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Velvet

The customer does not decide which server to hire, or which cook, or which grocer the restaurant buys from, therefore, the customer does not directly pay for these things. The customer pays for the food and drinks as they are listed on the menu. And the level of service provided. If the owner can’t make a profit, can’t pay for the groceries, can’t pay their employees - they should not be in business. But what they can do, is set the price for their food and drinks but not for the service - unless, I suppose, they could say - if you actually want the food to be brought to you so you can eat it too - that’ll cost an extra 20%. How is this not obvious?

20% of what, is the question? Do $$ equal effort? I don't think so. The same number of plates delivered to separate tables should receive the same tip, imho. But generally, it is not the number of plates, but what is on the plate that determines the tip amount. The waiter determines none of that. A glass of water is usually free, but a glass containing some form of alcoholic beverage can be very expensive, but the waiter determines none of that, either. I sincerely doubt that if nobody tipped restaurants prices would NOT need to go up 20% to cover the labor cost.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I have tried to explain it but I cannot make you understand it. The customer pays 100% of the employees wage whether through tipping or through higher menu prices.

If you don’t like the concept of tipping then just add 20% to the price and pay a higher menu prices.

But don’t demand the restaurant raise prices for all of us because you can’t understand. I prefer to have at least some small say in the quality of service I receive. I like to show my appreciation and I suspect I get remembered rewarded for that the next time I visit.

100% of the employee wages, except for servers. Often the "tips" cover (unnecessarily by law) the amount underpaid/withheld by the employer and multiply their income by double, triple or more (if not reported/taxed).
You like to show your appreciation. The restaurant should show you their appreciation. They are the ones that need you in order to survive, not the other way round.
By dumping 20% on the waiter (× howevermany tables per hour) (unnecessarily since employer must cover income not received in tips), you actually hurt the restaurants profit. If not for tipping, restaurants could probably be able to buy better quality ingredients and improve their overall quality for far less than what you now leave the person who has nothing to do with any part of producing the product placed before you. Huge reward for so little input to the food you ordered.

[Velvet]

Yes, the typical 15% is arbitrarily determined by what you order - not on number of trips, plates, drinks etc again why it can’t be considered directly as wages. As a result many lady friends I know order the cheapest items on the menu, in fact, select the restaurant based on the menu prices. While some of my other lady friends pay double or triple the typical tip (to compensate for the less generous tips). I find it very arbitrary.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Yes, the typical 15% is arbitrarily determined by what you order - not on number of trips, plates, drinks etc again why it can’t be considered directly as wages. As a result many lady friends I know order the cheapest items on the menu, in fact, select the restaurant based on the menu prices. While some of my other lady friends pay double or triple the typical tip (to compensate for the less generous tips). I find it very arbitrary.

And some wonder why we can’t have nice things, or have the reputation we do.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

100% of the employee wages, except for servers. Often the "tips" cover (unnecessarily by law) the amount underpaid/withheld by the employer and multiply their income by double, triple or more (if not reported/taxed).
You like to show your appreciation. The restaurant should show you their appreciation. They are the ones that need you in order to survive, not the other way round.
By dumping 20% on the waiter (× howevermany tables per hour) (unnecessarily since employer must cover income not received in tips), you actually hurt the restaurants profit. If not for tipping, restaurants could probably be able to buy better quality ingredients and improve their overall quality for far less than what you now leave the person who has nothing to do with any part of producing the product placed before you. Huge reward for so little input to the food you ordered.

“Except for the servers…”. Okay then, out of whose pocket does the remainder of the money come from for paying the servers?

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Yes, the typical 15% is arbitrarily determined by what you order - not on number of trips, plates, drinks etc again why it can’t be considered directly as wages. As a result many lady friends I know order the cheapest items on the menu, in fact, select the restaurant based on the menu prices. While some of my other lady friends pay double or triple the typical tip (to compensate for the less generous tips). I find it very arbitrary.

Double or triple the typical tip? Virtue signaling, showing off, keeping up with the Jones's, whatever! They have been sucked into the lie. They drank heavily of the Kool-aid! It's all actually unnecessary. The employer has to fill the gap.
Remember "Thank you for your custom"?
Remember "Thank you for your patronage?
You are the customer, the patron. You don't need them. They need YOU! Without customers they go under. If they can't feed, serve, make you happy, there are plenty of other places that will. How conniving of them to make us think otherwise.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

“Except for the servers…”. Okay then, out of whose pocket does the remainder of the money come from for paying the servers?

You probably skipped over it. The employer! Employer pays employee. It's what businesses do.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

You probably skipped over it. The employer! Employer pays employee. It's what businesses do.

And where does the employer get the funds to pay the employee? (If the answer is a tree with dollar bills as flowers or a leprechaun who spins silk into gold then where can I get one?)

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Double or triple the typical tip? Virtue signaling, showing off, keeping up with the Jones's, whatever! They have been sucked into the lie. They drank heavily of the Kool-aid! It's all actually unnecessary. The employer has to fill the gap.
Remember "Thank you for your custom"?
Remember "Thank you for your patronage?
You are the customer, the patron. You don't need them. They need YOU! Without customers they go under. If they can't feed, serve, make you happy, there are plenty of other places that will. How conniving of them to make us think otherwise.

Actually, I happen to know that with my friends it is simply empathy, now very well off, there was a time when they served as waitresses etc during college and they still remember how they had to put together their pennies.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

And where does the employer get the funds to pay the employee? (If the answer is a tree with dollar bills as flowers or a leprechaun who spins silk into gold then where can I get one?)

Really? Labor (or Labour, depending on where you live) is one of ongoing expenses that businesses have to figure in when deciding on how to price their product or service. Gross profit, if they figure properly, will cover all expenses and leave a reasonable net profit. In other words, the business is able to pay all its bills and the ownership makes money. All happy! 😀😀😀