[Bonanza]

I've often thought about why teachers get tenure and no other type of job has that kind of "protection."

It seems to me that it is a way of teacher possibly faking a couple of years of being a supposedly, "good teacher," and subsequently showing their true colors and doing a disservice to the children they are teaching when they finally have in the years to be tenured.

If tenure is such a great thing, why don't other specific types of jobs do the same thing?
BTW -- I am not speaking about unions, although teachers are a union.

[DougB]

You are a little behind the times. Florida stopped giving tenure to teachers 4 years ago for the very reason you said.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I've often thought about why teachers get tenure and no other type of job has that kind of "protection."

It seems to me that it is a way of teacher possibly faking a couple of years of being a supposedly, "good teacher," and subsequently showing their true colors and doing a disservice to the children they are teaching when they finally have in the years to be tenured.

If tenure is such a great thing, why don't other specific types of jobs do the same thing?
BTW -- I am not speaking about unions, although teachers are a union.

I agree with you.

[chalpm]

Not sure about Florida, but in NY custodians at the University were tenured as were firemen and probably others I can't think of at the moment..during the probationary period an employee can be let go without any given cause..it's up to the admn to do their job and weed out the poor employees during this period..most often three years. Employee's jobs are NOT secure once tenure is granted..just more difficult to let them go..documentation is needed.

[red tail]

a union is a union is a union....ugh

[OBXNana]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I've often thought about why teachers get tenure and no other type of job has that kind of "protection."

It seems to me that it is a way of teacher possibly faking a couple of years of being a supposedly, "good teacher," and subsequently showing their true colors and doing a disservice to the children they are teaching when they finally have in the years to be tenured.

If tenure is such a great thing, why don't other specific types of jobs do the same thing?
BTW -- I am not speaking about unions, although teachers are a union.

I couldn't agree more. Our daughter is a tenured teacher with 8 years on the job. She hates the fact there are so many good teachers that can't get jobs and other teachers (not always the older ones!) sit back and forget why they got into the profession. In PA around 1995 in order to become a teacher, a student had to graduate from college with 3.0. On the surface that is a good idea, but it also produced teachers that were book smart, but had no concept how to give the love of learning to their class.

The main issue is how to evaluate a teacher and get away from the tenure system.

[gatherer47]

tenure or no tenure,if you're not doing a good job,they'll find a way to get rid of you-it's usually an ultimatum "resign or else"

[DruannB]

Well, I'm tenured, but teach on the university level. No union. And if I don't perform, tenure or not, my university will find a way to remove me. Tenure can breed lazy teaching, but it also protects those of us who want to try new things, push our students to greater heights without fear of the negative student evaluations (many which are from students who were coddled in the lower grades), and an administration that likes to terminate older professors because they cost more to keep. And if I don't publish every year and go to conferences to present papers, you can also bet that I not only won't get a raise, but they will start to compile a file on me that will lead to early retirement or termination based on not upholding the minimum standards. Teaching is just hard work, physically and mentally, and certainly, it's not for everyone. You must LOVE it if you're going to be good because you must put your heart and soul into it.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by DruannB

Well, I'm tenured, but teach on the university level. No union. And if I don't perform, tenure or not, my university will find a way to remove me. Tenure can breed lazy teaching, but it also protects those of us who want to try new things, push our students to greater heights without fear of the negative student evaluations (many which are from students who were coddled in the lower grades), and an administration that likes to terminate older professors because they cost more to keep. And if I don't publish every year and go to conferences to present papers, you can also bet that I not only won't get a raise, but they will start to compile a file on me that will lead to early retirement or termination based on not upholding the minimum standards. Teaching is just hard work, physically and mentally, and certainly, it's not for everyone. You must LOVE it if you're going to be good because you must put your heart and soul into it.

I love and respect academicians at the college and postgrad level, but not unions. My favorite contractual inclusion is termination for "contumacious" behavior.

[tomwed]

Do you want the best and the brightest in the classroom or in business?
Should school administrators get tenure?
Do you want the board of education to run the school district and do the hiring and firing?

Anyone elected, at least in NJ can be on the board of education.

[gatherer47]

I taught with a lady whose son was president of our school board.She once said to me "I'm surprised Jimmy wanted to run for school board,he always hated school." Many times people run because they have a bone to pick about something.They have the mindset that that they'll get elected and fix what they were upset about.On the other I've known many members who did have student's best interests in mind. But as I said before tenure is just a word.If you're doing a poor job they'll find a way to get rid of you.And that's a good thing.

[waynet]

Bravo for unions!!!!

[skyc6]

Any principal who is worth his/her salary can remove an unsatisfactory teacher if he just does his/her job.
Sometimes they spend a little too much time "chewing the fat" with the PE teachers instead of having a presence in the building and dropping into classrooms. I have been on both sides. It is not that hard.
Sometimes districts decide to save some money by hiring a bunch of new teachers, instead of retaining veterans. Tenure can prevent this.
What if hospitals decided to give no security to experienced Doctors, and hired fresh new ones every few years?

[skyc6]

Originally Posted by DruannB

Well, I'm tenured, but teach on the university level. No union. And if I don't perform, tenure or not, my university will find a way to remove me. Tenure can breed lazy teaching, but it also protects those of us who want to try new things, push our students to greater heights without fear of the negative student evaluations (many which are from students who were coddled in the lower grades), and an administration that likes to terminate older professors because they cost more to keep. And if I don't publish every year and go to conferences to present papers, you can also bet that I not only won't get a raise, but they will start to compile a file on me that will lead to early retirement or termination based on not upholding the minimum standards. Teaching is just hard work, physically and mentally, and certainly, it's not for everyone. You must LOVE it if you're going to be good because you must put your heart and soul into it.

All of the reasons you favor tenure apply to teachers of all grades, not just universities. You are right that you have to love it because you have to put up with lots of negative reactions, difficult parents, time constraints, ridiculous testing of students and poor behavior. Additional education is also a component. Very few other union jobs require any college, much less 4+++ years. I looked forward to going to work every single day and never took a sick day in 25 years. It was wonderful!

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I've often thought about why teachers get tenure and no other type of job has that kind of "protection."

It seems to me that it is a way of teacher possibly faking a couple of years of being a supposedly, "good teacher," and subsequently showing their true colors and doing a disservice to the children they are teaching when they finally have in the years to be tenured.

If tenure is such a great thing, why don't other specific types of jobs do the same thing?
BTW -- I am not speaking about unions, although teachers are a union.

Actually, there IS another job that has tenure like that, but with much better pay, insurance benefits, and pension available sooner for fewer years served.

Like teachers, these people WE hire often get stale and unresponsive/unaccountable, too……..

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