[graciegirl]

Can all children who are in "regular" classes succeed in college?

Is it shameful not to? Why or why not?

[lafoto]

"higher education" is not for everyone.

"Shame" for not being college material? No Way!
I think that the vast majority of people would say
that their success in life was obtained by the choices
that they made along life's road.

[mulligan]

IMHO, Ms. G, probably 95% of students, if they made an honest effort, could find a way to succeed in college ( to at least the Associates level) That being said, I believe that a very large percentage could find greater success if they attended a technical school, or entered an apprenticeship program. There are far too few young people learning trades, and us old folks are bailing out at an ever increasing rate.

[justjim]

There are many who don't do well in High School but are successful at the college level. Some, like myself, are called "late bloomers".

When given the opportunity, some kids that you think aren't college material do quite well and many times are among the most successful graduates. I have personally observed this.

Don't rule out anybody until after they are given the opportunity.

[DonH57]

My grades for the all college courses I took were always higher than my middle and high school grades. I think in middle and high school I didn't care and thought I already knew everything.

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by mulligan

IMHO, Ms. G, probably 95% of students, if they made an honest effort, could find a way to succeed in college ( to at least the Associates level) That being said, I believe that a very large percentage could find greater success if they attended a technical school, or entered an apprenticeship program. There are far too few young people learning trades, and us old folks are bailing out at an ever increasing rate.

This is so true.

The vast majority could succeed……if they wanted to. Too many students lose motivation about "school" in general in middle school and high school, because the emphasis from the federal and state level and teacher education/credentialing programs aim only at a liberal-arts core, college-prep curriculum, and they make "vocational-technical" education a dirty word. They speak the very words "vocational-technical" and "trades" with utter disdain, gagging and spitting.

And few on the academia side will admit that the free-flowing college financial aid and especially the abundance of student LOANS adds to the allure and "prestige" the state and federal Executive, Legislative and Judicial politicians give themselves.

But some of the happiest and financially secure people we know here in The Villages and beyond are current or former tradesmen. Their jobs/careers might seem "boring" or "not cerebral enough" for the politicians groomed and coddled in the ivory tower of academia, but it shows just how bone-headed they are to ignore the fact that without machinists, draftsmen, administrative assistants-secretaries, policemen, firemen, web designers-graphic artists, hairdressers, meat cutters, dental assistants, dental-lab technicians, x-ray technicians, welders, etc. etc. etc…….this country would be like Haiti.

Personally, I believe high school can and should encourage BOTH some vocational-technical education and college-prep, as I had, and went on to attain a bachelor's degree in education which I loved. But when I could not get jobs when we moved with my husband's education and training in his profession, I fully relied on my office-clerical skills to work for food and rent--literally--in the early years, and it was there that I got in on the ground floor of personal computer software application and training and later, teaching. I had both v-technical and college prep HS curricula, and never even knew there were divisions in those sectors in other states into which we moved.

No 7th-, 8th-, or 9th-grader should be tracked only into vocational-technical or only into college prep at that age, with no coursework experience in the other type, and especially with no benchmark experience in either track.

Here is an excellent article on the subject:

Some college graduates turn to tech school for job training

.

[justjim]

It's only shameful when a child is not given the opportunity to reach their potential. That doesn't always mean a college education---sometimes it does. Reaching your potential may mean having the opportunity to be an automotive mechanic, electrician, nurse, artist, barber, house teck, teacher, truck driver, engineer or scientist. Enough to get my point.

[Bizdoc]

During the accreditation renewal meetings at the third university where I was on the faculty, a big discussion ensued about measuring "student success". The administrator types and a large number of the faculty wanted to use percentage of students who graduated as the measure. I (and a number of other faculty members) tried to convince our colleagues that success may include (1) the realization that college is now the solution for them, (2) a different college may better meet their needs, (3) they may not be ready for college *right now* and several other outcomes.

As a society, we have become obsessed with having people complete college, even when it is the totally wrong answer for some. We need to stop insisting that people go to college and then stigmatizing them when they determine it is the wrong place for them to be.

[kevmo]

A recent study, discussed this past weekend on Fareed Zakaria show, has shown that for the first time, students with below average college entrance exam scores who come from higher income families have a higher graduation rate than students with above average exam scores who come from lower income families. There are many factors that figure into whether students graduate, but our future is dependent on ensuring the best and brightest get the education needed to lead us to a better world.

[tomwed]

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
I didn't answer the question. I hate when I do that.

[cavalier65]

It has been said that in 40 years the average Villages resident will have tattoos and listen to hip-hop. Given the out-of-control behavior of several cultures within the U.S. and the focus of colleges on equal outcomes, does anyone doubt this?

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by cavalier65

It has been said that in 40 years the average Villages resident will have tattoos and listen to hip-hop. Given the out-of-control behavior of several cultures within the U.S. and the focus of colleges on equal outcomes, does anyone doubt this?

And, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, rock and roll was the coming evil in our culture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gQV15DPvyE

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Can all children who are in "regular" classes succeed in college?

Is it shameful not to? Why or why not?

I think any student who can succeed in regular classes can also succeed in college. But to me, the more important factor is enabling each student to discover what it is that he/she really is interested in doing. Maybe it wouldn't involve going to college; maybe it would.

But if they're not studying something interesting to them, their chances of success are less. My opinion. I have no facts to back up that opinion. But I do have anecdotal experiences.

[2BNTV]

Abby Normal, flunked out of college.

Seriously. I think everyone can succeed in college if they apply themselves. The question becomes, "did the student pick a field of endeavor that will have jobs, when they graduate"? IMHO

So may students have graduated college and they can't get a job in what they were trained for and wanted. That is assuming, the didn't take basket weaving type courses? They jobs are filled by athletes.

[JerryLBell]

There does seem to be a general idea that college is the ONLY way to a successful life. I don't know if that's so true anymore, particularly with the insanely spiraling costs of a university education. It may help you get the job you want but you may be greatly burdened by college debt for too many years for it to have nearly the cost/benefit ratio it once did.

Also, a traditional college education isn't the only type of continuing education that can create careers. There are a lot of trade schools where people can go to learn skills for careers that may be less glamorous but are vital to the economy. I mean, my plumber makes a decent living and certainly doesn't have a Masters in Plumbology but he didn't come out of high school knowing everything a plumber needs to know to make a living. He went to a trade school and learned not only plumbing-specific skills but some basic business management skills that helped him start and run a successful business.

Yes, we need to churn out more scientists, engineers, doctors, educators and the like. But we still need good carpenters, plumbers, electricians, car mechanics, welders, hair dressers and other skilled professionals and we should be promoting the educational paths to those types of careers as well.