Chelsea, I trust it is not a surprise that I disagree with what you have said. As I pointed out earlier, what is happening is a result of our over comitting as a nation. We cannot afford what we have already committed to in Social Security, Civil Service Retirement programs (Not to mention the incredibly generous Congressional retirement programs) and Medicare/Medicaid. I pointed out three things that happened in the Bush administration that had contributed to hastening the problem. Two of these were beyond his control.

The Obama administration has done two things that are worsening the situation: (1) diverting over one-third of TARP funds from the original purpose of stabilizing our financial system to such things as GM & Chrysler bailouts. TARP was a truly bipartisan program in the closing days of the Bush administration and was supported by both parties as well as the incoming and outgoing president. The diversion of funds has left the capital and credit markets still too weak for our needs. (2) The ill advised 'stimulus package'. The purpose of this late night package that no one had the opportunity to read was, "to hold unemployment under 8%." The package not only failed in its goals, it has supported 'pork' projects that will add little or nothing to our nation's infrastructure. Had it done such things as upgrading our electric grid to a 'smart grid' or worked to converting our over the road trucks to natural gas instead of diesel, it would have been of value.

My concern today is that the current administration has three major efforts that will increase the budget deficit, put more people out of work and make our industry even more non-competitive in the global economy that we are today. These are The Health Reform Program, The Cap and Trade Bill and the Card Check legislation. I can go into the effects of each of these, but this post has already grown too long. Put together they will either reduce the US to the status of the Weimar economy in Germany or cause its dissolutions as futurists have predicted.

I don't know of anyone who questions Obamas intelligence. Just because he is bright does not mean that he is right or good. The people, do not question his smarts but the do question his actions and the actions of those that he surrounds himself with. I wish that he will be a great president and that we the people will all be happy. I believe that he is trying to take our country in the wrong direction, away from the constitution. His Czars, his affiliation with ACORN, his spending etc. I don't know. maybe I am wrong. I will try to remove a lot of politicians in 2010.

Why bother. Oboma supporters will always follow him. They will always have a different vision of America than I. They say he has been a great president so far. Just what has he done. I'm curious.

Yoda

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Bucco, you're just plain wrong. Anyone that knows me, knows I always look for the good in people and I don't know why you would personally attack me by saying I sense evil in EVERYONE that opposes me. That's not only strange, it's downright rude.

I don't think of George W. as evil, or Rumsfield, just lame and not really bright at all. I've only used the word "evil" with two people and that's Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. And I stand by my words.

And just to clarify, I don't post to support the Democratic party at all. In fact, truly believe that Nancy Pelosi and several others should be replaced. I do support President Obama. I believe he is one of the, if not the most, intelligent Presidents we've ever had in my lifetime. I think he has a very long range view on how to improve this country. It's hard to make that work in the "what have you done for me lately?" mentality of Washington, and the constant smear campaigns to undermine him.

It is my belief that since the day he took office, the Republicans have had to out for him and will not back him at any cost, even though this may be detrimental to our country. I think there is a lot of sour grapes spewed in both the Congress and the Senate. And, I also think there is a racial undertone. And let's get this clear before you go off again -- I'M NOT SAYING YOU!

I don't care how you try to sweep it under the carpet, President Obama inherited a multitude of messes. I can't remember a President that had to take on so many large issues at one time. Yes, I completely support him.

You always take the stance that you are bi-partisan Bucco, but it's not true. I'm sorry you don't like my "cutsie" answers. You've said this before. So let me tell you what I think of your posts. I think you sound like a frightened old lady that runs around saying "the sky is falling" every two minutes! How does that feel??? If you don't like my "cutsie" answers, don't read them. It's that simply! We're never doing to see eye to eye, so let's just call it a day. As I said... "Time will tell."

"He says America's health-care system is going to wrack and ruin and requires root-and-branch reform—but that if you like your health care (as a large majority of Americans do), nothing will change for you. His slippery new formulation is that nothing in his plan will "require" anyone to change coverage. He used to say, "If you like your health-care plan, you'll be able to keep your health-care plan, period." He had to stop saying that because various disinterested analysts agree that his plan will give many employers incentives to stop providing coverage for employees."

"He deplores "scare tactics" but says that unless he gets his way, people will die. He praises temperate discourse but says many of his opponents are liars."

"He says the nation's economic health depends on controlling health-care costs. Yet so important is the trial bar in financing the Democratic Party, he says not a syllable in significant and specific support of tort reforms that could save hundreds of billions of dollars by reducing "defensive medicine" intended to protect not patients from illnesses but doctors from lawyers. He has said he will not add a dime to the deficit when bringing 47 million people into government-guaranteed health care. But Wednesday night, 17 million went missing: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage." Almost 10 million of the uninsured are not citizens, and most of them are illegal immigrants. Presumably the other 7 million could get insurance but chose not to"

For all you democrats out there, the above is from George Will and the editorial is titled...

The President is CPR for the GOP.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215301

Then of course this from Ben Stein....

"Thank you, Barrack Obama

"As a 64-year-old, lifelong fiscal conservative and Republican since Nixon, may I humbly thank you? In the eight months or so since you took office, you have succeeded in reviving a party, the GOP, that many had left for dead.

You have named men to office so wildly irresponsible, so extreme in their positions, so vulgar in their means of expression, that they have made the Republican Party regain its of gleam of gentility and good graces.......

You have proposed a national health care plan so wildly extravagant, incomprehensibly complex and over the top that it makes President George W. Bush's budget gaffes seem like blips -- plus you have told fibs about it so immense that you have embarrassed yourself as a public figure: "

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/0...u-barack-obama

Chelsea you said Obama is intelligent and knows how to improve our country.

What are the things you want or expect that Obama is doing or will do to improve our country?

I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

Bucco, you can post "links" until hell freezes over and I can pull up just as many links that will dispute all of yours. I don't chose to engage in the battle of the links. And for the love of God, please don't quote Ben Stein! OMG! He's most well known for his bit part in "Farris Bueller's Day Off." Yes, he was a quasi-speech writer for Nixon. Did I mention FOR NIXON! If you want to put comedians out there, I will counter with Jon Stewart, Colbert, and Bill Maher and trust me, they will tear Ben Stein to shreds!

Perhaps you'd like to read this Bucco:

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/index.html

Cashman, first let me say I don't think President Obama is infallible! But I do think that his background is always being called into question. When indeed, his background is "The American Dream." This is a man that came from a broken home, struggled for his education, graduated from Harvard, and was the first African-Amercian to become President of the Harvard Law Review. Went on to become a Community Organizer, a Senator, and now President of the United States, running one of the most successful campaigns in political history. He didn't have a daddy to buy his way into schools or into political positions. He did this all and I mean ALL on his own.

As for our country, I see of man of vision. Like I stated before, I think his plans are far-reaching and some will take years to blossom. Do you honestly think that a man that has accomplished so much for his age will suddenly deteriorate into some kind of babbling nonsensical idiot? He has taken us from the abyss of financial disaster. He is trying to pass Health Reform, that even the Republicans begrudgingly had to agree we need desperately. He is addressing the ever-increasing drop-out rate and lack of education in this country... and he has not one, but two wars going on! Quite frankly, I don't know how he sleeps at night with everything he has on his plate. I'm surprised he's not babbling down the halls like Nixon was. And I do understand his putting deadlines on things (quite frankly, anyone that was in the corporate world should understand this.) If you don't put some kind of deadlines up... nothing gets done! The Congress and Senate are no different than the Corporate executives that will take that extra long lunch hour or time off, if nothing is pressing them to action. Some our fearless leaders spend more time whining about not having enough time to read a bill, then actually reading the bill! I want to say, "Shut up, sit down and read!"

I'm sorry, but I personally have to discount the shrieking birthers, and the Tea Party was simply a Fox News controlled vehicle. Did you see some of the interviews with the people from "The Tea Party Express"? Comparing Obama to Hitler, this incessant yapping about socialism... this is all to whip of a fringe group of loonies! I'm furious that the media gives them as much air-time as they get! And to not even want their children to watch an address from The President of the United States!!!! How insane is that! He was talking about the benefits of staying in school and getting an education. How can ANYONE give credence to this kind of thinking. Many, many years ago, kids would actually lift their glasses of milk in a toast to President Eisenhower at lunch! I remember always watching Presidential Addresses in my grade school and high school. What has gone soooooooo wrong???

And like it or not... and quite frankly, I detest it... there is a racial undertone to some of this. I'm betting there are not many white southern men that want some black guy telling them what to do. That's putting it plainly and simply! We might not like to hear it, but it's there. President Obama will have to work 10 times as hard to win approval (if ever) with the right-wingnuts, than any white northerner would have to do. This is how I see it and many others do to.

Well, I might be in the minority on this board, but, I'm in the majority of the country. What will be, will be. I think he will get his Health Reform Bill passed because he's also intelligent enough to know when it's time to say "ENOUGH!" I think he proved that with his speech.

It appears that you Chelsea do not see what we Conservatives see in what Obama and his illegal gang of unelected leftists are up to.

I was sorry to see you raise the "race" issue so i must say good bye to any future discourse with you.

about the statement that went something like...so many have grown tired of banging their head against the wall and no longer post here...not an exact paraphrase but close enough for the purpose of comment.

During Bush' last two years and mostly during the election year the shoe was on the other foot. The mere mention of a name the opposition had in their sites....a subject was not a prerequisite....and often when there was one it was ignored.....and the tirade of bashing commenced. Consistently....every day without exception.

Just like this thread some chose to take things to a personal level....but that was usually a minority of the participants. And now that their man won the election there is this air of if one does not hail the POTUS...agree with the man...do not support what he is selling/promoting/et al.......the tenor of the opposition is oh my GOD what is wrong with these people or something akon to that.

What I see on this forum and many others I participate in and in "real" life (actually talking to people face to face) is an inordinate need by the supporters of Obama to not allow the same latitude of discourse they so frequently used prior to the election.

From the WH to the POTUS to the federal and state lawmakers and entertainers....way too much playing of the race card. It as usual has nothing to do with a given subject....but that doesn't seem to matter...it has worn thin in the eyes and ears of the majority of we the people. It adds no value and only generates heat (which seems to be the objective).

Not looking for a debate....just an observation.....as I saw it....see it and hear it.

No struggle no progress.

btk

Originally Posted by chelsea24

I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

Bucco, you can post "links" until hell freezes over and I can pull up just as many links that will dispute all of yours. I don't chose to engage in the battle of the links. And for the love of God, please don't quote Ben Stein! OMG! He's most well known for his bit part in "Farris Bueller's Day Off." Yes, he was a quasi-speech writer for Nixon. Did I mention FOR NIXON! If you want to put comedians out there, I will counter with Jon Stewart, Colbert, and Bill Maher and trust me, they will tear Ben Stein to shreds!

Perhaps you'd like to read this Bucco:

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/index.html

Cashman, first let me say I don't think President Obama is infallible! But I do think that his background is always being called into question. When indeed, his background is "The American Dream." This is a man that came from a broken home, struggled for his education, graduated from Harvard, and was the first African-Amercian to become President of the Harvard Law Review. Went on to become a Community Organizer, a Senator, and now President of the United States, running one of the most successful campaigns in political history. He didn't have a daddy to buy his way into schools or into political positions. He did this all and I mean ALL on his own.

As for our country, I see of man of vision. Like I stated before, I think his plans are far-reaching and some will take years to blossom. Do you honestly think that a man that has accomplished so much for his age will suddenly deteriorate into some kind of babbling nonsensical idiot? He has taken us from the abyss of financial disaster. He is trying to pass Health Reform, that even the Republicans begrudgingly had to agree we need desperately. He is addressing the ever-increasing drop-out rate and lack of education in this country... and he has not one, but two wars going on! Quite frankly, I don't know how he sleeps at night with everything he has on his plate. I'm surprised he's not babbling down the halls like Nixon was. And I do understand his putting deadlines on things (quite frankly, anyone that was in the corporate world should understand this.) If you don't put some kind of deadlines up... nothing gets done! The Congress and Senate are no different than the Corporate executives that will take that extra long lunch hour or time off, if nothing is pressing them to action. Some our fearless leaders spend more time whining about not having enough time to read a bill, then actually reading the bill! I want to say, "Shut up, sit down and read!"

I'm sorry, but I personally have to discount the shrieking birthers, and the Tea Party was simply a Fox News controlled vehicle. Did you see some of the interviews with the people from "The Tea Party Express"? Comparing Obama to Hitler, this incessant yapping about socialism... this is all to whip of a fringe group of loonies! I'm furious that the media gives them as much air-time as they get! And to not even want their children to watch an address from The President of the United States!!!! How insane is that! He was talking about the benefits of staying in school and getting an education. How can ANYONE give credence to this kind of thinking. Many, many years ago, kids would actually lift their glasses of milk in a toast to President Eisenhower at lunch! I remember always watching Presidential Addresses in my grade school and high school. What has gone soooooooo wrong???

And like it or not... and quite frankly, I detest it... there is a racial undertone to some of this. I'm betting there are not many white southern men that want some black guy telling them what to do. That's putting it plainly and simply! We might not like to hear it, but it's there. President Obama will have to work 10 times as hard to win approval (if ever) with the right-wingnuts, than any white northerner would have to do. This is how I see it and many others do to.

Well, I might be in the minority on this board, but, I'm in the majority of the country. What will be, will be. I think he will get his Health Reform Bill passed because he's also intelligent enough to know when it's time to say "ENOUGH!" I think he proved that with his speech.

Wll, no more links then, and why in the world you bring out the race card repeatedly is beyond me...that is not only unfair...it is unfounded and racial in itself.

That race stuff makes it very difficult to have any discussion and since your confidence in a man who has already lied to you as a supporter with his transparency, his no pork, and the list goes on and on and yet you still support him and throw out race when he is criticized...well, the race thing is simply a stopper for me...I didnt like it during the campaign and I dislike it now and only his supporters ever mention it, which should make us all very wary !

If you think that everyone is crtiical not of his over spending, his misinformation, his radical appointments, and all of what has gone on in such a short time is because of his RACE....well, my sympathies to you !

If you disregard americans being upset and showing it...if you feel the lesson plan for the talk with students was appropriate (the ORIGINAL lesson plan) which by the way was the reason for the discourse and not talking to the students (although there was alot of grief when Bush 1 talked to them from the Democratic party)...if you think misleading the country about his health plan (which nobody has ever seen) is or has a "racial undertone" to it, then there would be no reason to find a link or not find a link....it will be dismissed as such as it was in the campaign.

I, for one, am sick and tired of saying there are racial overtones to my criticism of the President. It stinks and being called that is not taken lightly !

[QUOTE=chelsea24;225386]I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

**********
I do not doubt that Obama knows the constitution better than I. Will he protect and defend the constitution is the question at hand. ACORN and SEIU surround the POTUS. Be afraid.

Yoda

Cashman, I'm sorry you feel that way. Racism is America's dirty little secret and should be debated, not dismissed.

Bucco, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you saying I "REPEATEDLY" bring up race is competely wrong. I don't even remember bringing it up before, but I might have. I'm sure you'll dig it out if it's there. And I specifically said "I'm NOT talking about you"! Do you skim read???

And noooooooo! I don't think all the objections to President Obama's policies and appointments have to do with race! But, I do believe, that for some, this is an issue. Like it or not... it's there. And BTW, don't think for a minute I don't realize that racism works both ways. I'm a realist! Always have been.

Are any of you realists? Can any of you admit that a lot of this Townhall, Tea Party, Birther stuff is over the top? Just wondering...

Yoda, you sound like a very sweet man, but I'm not afraid of President Obama.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Cashman, I'm sorry you feel that way. Racism is America's dirty little secret and should be debated, not dismissed.

Bucco, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you saying I "REPEATEDLY" bring up race is competely wrong. I don't even remember bringing it up before, but I might have. I'm sure you'll dig it out if it's there. And I specifically said "I'm NOT talking about you"! Do you skim read???

And noooooooo! I don't think all the objections to President Obama's policies and appointments has to do with race! But, I do believe, that for some, this is an issue. Like it or not... it's there. And BTW, don't think for a minute I don't realize that racism works both ways. I'm a realist! Always have been.

Are any of you realists? Can any of you admit that a lot of this Townhall, Tea Party, Birther stuff is over the top? Just wondering...

Yoda, you sound like a very sweet man, but I'm not afraid of President Obama.

Birther stuff...yeah, I think it is over the top !

Having town halls is NOT over the top and you are mistaking REAL people with REAL fear with some political movement,

Tea Parties.....listen this is REAL.....if you think taxes are ONLY going to be assessed on the "rich", you are living with your head in the sand. They are alreading hinting about taxes on lower than 250,000 just last week. And if you dont think the President's health bill does not come with added "taxes" you better read the bill (We assume that he has been talking about the Baucus bill, but we dont know that for sure as you know !

For what is worth...I was scared before and more scared now as it becomes a reality !

Oh, and you DID call me a racist at least twice during the campaign and alluded to it a few times, but not going to go back and search..not worth it...you feel the way you feel.

In my mind there has been no race card played ever against this President !!

Originally Posted by Bucco

Birther stuff...yeah, I think it is over the top !

Having town halls is NOT over the top and you are mistaking REAL people with REAL fear with some political movement,

Tea Parties.....listen this is REAL.....if you think taxes are ONLY going to be assessed on the "rich", you are living with your head in the sand. They are alreading hinting about taxes on lower than 250,000 just last week. And if you dont think the President's health bill does not come with added "taxes" you better read the bill (We assume that he has been talking about the Baucus bill, but we dont know that for sure as you know !

For what is worth...I was scared before and more scared now as it becomes a reality !

Oh, and you DID call me a racist at least twice during the campaign and alluded to it a few times, but not going to go back and search..not worth it...you feel the way you feel.

In my mind there has been no race card played ever against this President !!

OK Bucco, If I ever did call YOU in particular a racist, I sincerely apologize. But, it is out there, none the less.

I think I'll sign off on the thread because it is now becoming longer then George W. Bush's actual legacy!

Originally Posted by chelsea24

I guess I'm swimming upstream here, because more of the people I know that used to post in political have decided it's just not worth it. Quite frankly, it's like banging my head against a wall.

First, Yoda, I can guarantee you the President Obama knows more about the intricacies of the Constitution than all of us and most of the Congress and Senate. After all... he lectured Constitutional Law at The University of Chicago. Second, he was a Community Organizer and a damned good one. Fact: You CANNOT be an effective community organizer and not ever deal with ACORN. It just doesn't happen. (P.S. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't want to meet your pug! Haha! I love pugs, had one for 17 years and will probably get another.)

Bucco, you can post "links" until hell freezes over and I can pull up just as many links that will dispute all of yours. I don't chose to engage in the battle of the links. And for the love of God, please don't quote Ben Stein! OMG! He's most well known for his bit part in "Farris Bueller's Day Off." Yes, he was a quasi-speech writer for Nixon. Did I mention FOR NIXON! If you want to put comedians out there, I will counter with Jon Stewart, Colbert, and Bill Maher and trust me, they will tear Ben Stein to shreds!

Perhaps you'd like to read this Bucco:

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/index.html

Cashman, first let me say I don't think President Obama is infallible! But I do think that his background is always being called into question. When indeed, his background is "The American Dream." This is a man that came from a broken home, struggled for his education, graduated from Harvard, and was the first African-Amercian to become President of the Harvard Law Review. Went on to become a Community Organizer, a Senator, and now President of the United States, running one of the most successful campaigns in political history. He didn't have a daddy to buy his way into schools or into political positions. He did this all and I mean ALL on his own.

As for our country, I see of man of vision. Like I stated before, I think his plans are far-reaching and some will take years to blossom. Do you honestly think that a man that has accomplished so much for his age will suddenly deteriorate into some kind of babbling nonsensical idiot? He has taken us from the abyss of financial disaster. He is trying to pass Health Reform, that even the Republicans begrudgingly had to agree we need desperately. He is addressing the ever-increasing drop-out rate and lack of education in this country... and he has not one, but two wars going on! Quite frankly, I don't know how he sleeps at night with everything he has on his plate. I'm surprised he's not babbling down the halls like Nixon was. And I do understand his putting deadlines on things (quite frankly, anyone that was in the corporate world should understand this.) If you don't put some kind of deadlines up... nothing gets done! The Congress and Senate are no different than the Corporate executives that will take that extra long lunch hour or time off, if nothing is pressing them to action. Some our fearless leaders spend more time whining about not having enough time to read a bill, then actually reading the bill! I want to say, "Shut up, sit down and read!"

I'm sorry, but I personally have to discount the shrieking birthers, and the Tea Party was simply a Fox News controlled vehicle. Did you see some of the interviews with the people from "The Tea Party Express"? Comparing Obama to Hitler, this incessant yapping about socialism... this is all to whip of a fringe group of loonies! I'm furious that the media gives them as much air-time as they get! And to not even want their children to watch an address from The President of the United States!!!! How insane is that! He was talking about the benefits of staying in school and getting an education. How can ANYONE give credence to this kind of thinking. Many, many years ago, kids would actually lift their glasses of milk in a toast to President Eisenhower at lunch! I remember always watching Presidential Addresses in my grade school and high school. What has gone soooooooo wrong???

And like it or not... and quite frankly, I detest it... there is a racial undertone to some of this. I'm betting there are not many white southern men that want some black guy telling them what to do. That's putting it plainly and simply! We might not like to hear it, but it's there. President Obama will have to work 10 times as hard to win approval (if ever) with the right-wingnuts, than any white northerner would have to do. This is how I see it and many others do to.

Well, I might be in the minority on this board, but, I'm in the majority of the country. What will be, will be. I think he will get his Health Reform Bill passed because he's also intelligent enough to know when it's time to say "ENOUGH!" I think he proved that with his speech.

Chelsea- the best post I've seen in months here! Just remember, The Villages is not representative of the rest of the country, or even Florida. It's demographics point to the majority being overwhelmingly out-of-touch with the majority of Americans.

Last time I looked, we were a Democratic Republic. The Majority of the Villages may be right-wing, but they are a minority of the electorate. Keep the faith.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

Chelsea- the best post I've seen in months here! Just remember, The Villages is not representative of the rest of the country, or even Florida. It's demographics point to the majority being overwhelmingly out-of-touch with the majority of Americans.

Last time I looked, we were a Democratic Republic. The Majority of the Villages may be right-wing, but they are a minority of the electorate. Keep the faith.

I think that you will find that the political, social and moral values of the majority of villagers reflect those of the majority of Americans. They also can make mistakes. They also can correct their errors. I doubt if many are blind following Koolaid drinkers. Some are for sure but not many.

Yoda