Ok, I took Yoda up on his challenge.

The first show is a Founder's Fridays show. I'm hoping I can find some common ground here as I *devour* this kind of stuff. I *loved* the book "1776" that came out relatively recently, HBO's "John Adams", numerous History Channel documentaries, "Myth America", etc. If you pinned me down and made me name one 'hero' of mine, I'd have to say Thomas Jefferson.

So, with that in mind, let's see what Mr. Beck has to say. I'll go segment by segment.

So he introduces the show and talks about his heroes - Franklin, Washington and Adams. Not a bad trio if you ask me.

He goes on to talk about how he had low expectations for the FF shows but he's been surprised. Ok, so maybe his delivery is a little over-the-top but this IS show business.

He talks about his show on black history back then. Seems like there have been a lot of black contributions to the Revolutionary War and those times in general that we don't know about. My first thought was "Crispus Attucks", the first man to die in the Boston Massacre who happened to be black. Then going over all sorts of things that showed the Founders were progressively eliminating slavery.

Something I didn't know - only 3 southern states opposed eliminating slavery so the Constitution basically gave them 20 years to sort it out. Beck doesn't name the states but I'll take him at is word on this. He talks about the 1808 abolotion of the slave trade and how a black preacher in Philadelphia called for 1/1/1808 to be celebrated as a national holiday for that reason. Also how the parishoners rejected the idea of a segregated congregation until some race-baiters got their way years later. ALso how that same black preacher stayed in Philadelphia with a couple of others to tend to the sick during a huge Yellow Fever outbreak that killed 10% of the population.

Then it starts getting more interesting - I'll admit, by now, I'm hooked. I love this kind of stuff.

Then he brings in the author of a book on Black & White history in America. This is where they talk about (in 1820) repealing the law that said new states had to be non-slave states. Time for the break before Glenn goes into something else he wants to talk about...

[break]

The next segment shows reproductions of obituary announcements in the newspapers in the 1790s and how integrated they were (at least in the North). One "freed Negro" is mentioned to have been buried with full military honors, another described as a Pensioner of the United States. They show an original booklet from 1783 by George Washington telling Congress what kind of things need to be done - basically an outline for the first ever Veteran's benefits and there's no mention of race. You're a vetern, simple as that.

Then Beck talks to his guest about other discoveries and, to explain it briefly, he explains that the Confederacy re-wrote the hsitory books - going so far as to hide the portraits of black legislators behind stairwells. This goes along with when Beck looked for and read the Confederate Constitution and basically shines the light on the (in his opinion) fallacy of "it's was all about states rights",, He points out the documents reads "the slave-holding states of the Confederation" and that no state may STOP slaverly from being legal. (If it was all about states rights, shouldn't the states decide?)

I'm finding myself agreeing with all this. Quite the pleasant surprise.

The next segment is about more of what's missing and steps that the guest (David Barton) is doing to restore this history. They talk about textbooks and the infamous dustup over what's happening in Texas. Now, here's where I come to my first disagreement. They talk about how minority representation in the list of historical figures was to go up from 11% under the old textbooks to something like 22 or 25% and that people were getting mad over that.

I respectfully disagree. What got me, at least as far as History was concerned, about the Texas votes was the vote that pushed Jefferson aside. You can't say you're trying to restore history and remove the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence and was our 3rd President.

My *personal* belief is because of the anti-religion-in-government views that Jefferson had. I would imagine that Jefferson's hobby of trying to 'fix' the Bible wouldn't sit too well with Christians. But perhaps the quote "In our practice of Orthodox Christianity I cannot find one redeeming value" or "It matters not if my neighbor worships 20 gods or no gods - it neither picks my pocket not breaks my leg" is more the reason. This doesn't play with the "persecuted Christians" complex that I hear in many areas.

Still, all that being said, I'm still mostly in agreement here.

[break]

Next up is discussion how the 1772 law banning the slave trade contributed to our fight for independence. Rhode Island started with an anti-slavery law, then other colonies including Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. However, King George III said "No way - you're part of the British Empire and, as such, slavery will be legal".

So the obvious solution was to not be part of the empire anymore.

Also shown was an *1855* school textbook about "Colored Heroes" in American History written by the first black to attain elected Federal office (if I heard them right). Who knew this existed? Apparently you can read this on Google Books as it has not been reprinted.

[break]

Ok, they're starting to wrap up now. Talking about Beck trying to put out a textbook that highlights "whats missing" and where the existing textbooks are wrong. He exhorts his audience to teach kids to question, to research and look for themselves. Then he said somethign that really surprised me - question even the very existence of God.

WHERE did THAT come from?

Short segment and final thoughts coming up.

[break]

Just a quick audience member statement saying we have to know our history.

[end]

Ok, not much to disagree with here. I have to say it was a pleasant surprise. Now, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd say they want me to come to the same conclusions they do and the omitting of Jefferson when talking about the Texas Textbook Kerfuffle is curious.

If I were in the audience, I would have asked the question:

"Given that you're trying to fill in the gaps that are in the mainstream version of our history, do you have a theory or something more concrete that explains Jefferson's ownership of slaves with his writings that clearly sought to ban such practice?"

So there, Yoda. There's some common ground.

djplong, Jefferson inherited his slaves from his father, Peter Jefferson, and his father-in-law, John Wayles. Some of his slaves lived at Monticello and the others lived in the Virginia counties of Albemarle (outside Charlottsville) and Bedford.

There was a law on the books in Virginia that required freed slaves to leave the state within one year or face reenslavement. Thus, if Jefferson had freed his slaves he was then prohibited from rehiring them to work on the plantation as freemen.

"Efforts to rid the state of a population of free people of color numbering almost 50,000 by 1830 increased over the century. In 1833, in the wake of the Nat Turner rebellion, the governmental authorities sent a powerful message to Virginia's free blacks. They appropriated funds for colonizing freed slaves to West Africa and called for a special census in which all the free people of color in Virginia would be specifically asked about their willingness to emigrate. All 452 Albemarle County free blacks, including Joseph Fossett and Sally, Madison, and Eston Hemings, declined the offer," according to "The Getting Word Living History Project at Monticello." This is a fantastic website and project.

Jefferson did grant freedom to five of his slaves during his lifetime.

http://www.monticello.org/jefferson/biography.html

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/jefflife.html

http://www.monticello.org/gettingword/manumission.html

DJ, that was great. I didn't expect such an analysis. Where do you find the time . That was the puff stuff. (Beck is not all bad or a complete waste of time)

Let's see about Monday. We look forward to your thoughts.

Yoda

The time? Simple. It was Saturday morning For once, I was productive at that time of day watching a segment, writing a bit and taking care of laundry.

Yes, I agree it was 'fluff', compared to what the topic normally is surrounding Beck. But I also wanted to see if I could look at him with a more neutral eye. Since he was on a topic that is a hobby of mine (American History), I could certainly claim to be educated on it. Yet, still, I learned some things. To paraphrase Glenn Beck "Who knew there was a *textbook* in 1855 called 'Colored Patriots'"??? I certainly didn't.

Now, if he'd had more time, I don't know what he might have come up with as the reasons behind WHY this part of our history (and it IS *our* history - not Black History or White History - it's HISTORY) has been erased. It especially surprised me that people in the audience who had been to respected colleges and took ENTIRE COURSES that were supposedly DEVOTED to 'Black History' and 'Black Studies' didn't know this stuff. You'd think that was the FIRST place you'd find this information!

Finding those portraits of black Texas legislators in a CLOSET BEHIND A STAIRCASE in the Capitol building???

I liked the line "this is one time where the losers got to write the history books" (referring to the Confederacy about blacks).

Now - I just looked up the Confederate constitution here:

http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html

In his discussion proposing that "state's rights" was a canard and the real reason was slavery, Beck said their COnstitution forbade outlawing slavery and that their Constitution said "the slave-holding states of.." I went looking for that. Here's what I found..

Article 1. Section 9.
4. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

So there's the ban on outlawing slavery...

Article 4, Section 3:

3. The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.

So there it is - to join the Confederacy, you have to be a slave state. So much for 'states rights'.

The only place I saw them mention the term 'slave-holding state' was in reference to importing 'negro slaves' from slave-holding states of *The United States*. I guess they didn't want cheap imports as they banned the practice.

As far as the preamble, well:

We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character...

I don't know where Beck got the idea for his comment. He said he was reading an actual copy of the Constitution in a museum in Richmond. Since so much of the rest of his comments were spot-on, I don't think this was much of a mis-step.

EDIT: Wikipedia suggests that the CSA banned the slave-trade becuase they feared foreign governments wouldn't recognize the new country and also to protect the MD/VA internal slave-trade as they had yet to join the Confederacy.

Great job. I think this one on the Founders Friday should be in general discussions.

BTW What ever happened to Waynet?

Yoda

Originally Posted by Yoda

Great job. I think this one on the Founders Friday should be in general discussions.

BTW What ever happened to Waynet?

Yoda

YODA....I was wondering the same thing. I dont think Wayne is about to even try to listen to any other sides other than his. It is a shame because he seems to have passion.

TO all those participating in this discussion, HATS OFF. THIS is what the forum can be....a great discussion of events using facts and prompting others to become more interested and more curious.

Keep up the good work...YODA..DJPLONG...BKCUNNINGHAM.....nothing wrong with the give and take but this is really good stuff you guys are doing !

Good work !!

Originally Posted by Bucco

TO all those participating in this discussion, HATS OFF. THIS is what the forum can be....a great discussion of events using facts and prompting others to become more interested and more curious....Keep up the good work..

I seldom visit anymore because the Political Forum became just a rant--usually against the Democrats and President Obama. Not that I'm the President's "defender"--I've already said that I won't vote for him for re-election. But it's this type of discussion and research that could make this forum a really interesting place to visit, read and learn.

I'll keep an eye out and if I see more postings of this quality, it might be worth considering coming back again to put in my 'two cents worth'.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

I seldom visit anymore because the Political Forum became just a rant--usually against the Democrats and President Obama. Not that I'm the President's "defender"--I've already said that I won't vote for him for re-election. But it's this type of discussion and research that could make this forum a really interesting place to visit, read and learn.

I'll keep an eye out and if I see more postings of this quality, it might be worth considering coming back again to put in my 'two cents worth'.

I agree. And would love to write some interesting stuff about the emergence of the Confederacy, but I can't now.

djplong, the story of the three states you mentioned is really a very important part of American history. The three states were Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.

To make a long story short, when the Constitution was first being framed, there were more blacks in these states than whites. The Constitution sets out the way the US House of Representatives members are elected based on population. For every 30,000 residents you get one Representative in Congress.

When the delegates from the anti-slavery states realized these three pro-slavery states are counting their blacks and they will have a large number of Representatives, the delegates from the anti-slavery states say in order to be counted, the population must be free. Otherwise they are property.

The debate goes back and forth and the anti-slavery states delegates say, okay, if you count property so will we. We will count horses, tables, cattle....you get the point.

There was finally an agreement called the Three-fifths Compromise which is in Article I, Section 2 of the US Constitution. Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct. The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but each state shall have at least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the state of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

It cut the pro-slavery state's representation in half thus making it harder to get a proslavery voice in Congress.

The original Declaration of Independence was going to say, Life, Liberty and Property. Because of this 3/5 Compromise and the debate over slaves as property or counting them for representation, it was changed to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

It was based on the first and second article of the Virginia Declaration of Rights adopted unanimously by the Virginia Convention of Delegates on June 12, 1776 and written by George Mason:

That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.


We all now know what was adoped and we should know why: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

PS, I actually learned part of this from earlier episodes of Beck's Founders' Friday shows and part from one of my brothers who collects original copies of Bibles and history books. (And he reads them.)

U.S. Constitution
Article I
Section 1.
All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2.
The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states, and the electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature.

No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen.

Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct. The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but each state shall have at least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the state of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.


http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei

The black preacher you mentioned is the Reverend Absalom Jones. A true founder of America. His story and contributions to medicine, America and the Constitution can't be described here. You have to read the book.

He was a member of St. George’s Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia and was a lay preacher for the black members of the congregation. In 1786, Richard Allen joined Jones at the church. The black membership at St. George’s increased tenfold.

In the 1790s, Jones and Allen (a white man) tried to segregate denominations in the Methodist Episcopal Church. The members of the church didn't want a separate denomination. They worshiped together; black and white. Jones was the first black Episcopal Bishop. Think about that. In the 1700s.

As a sidebar, this time in history is where a big split came in the Methodist and Episcopal denominations.

The celebration on the first of January that Jones proposed as a day of "Thanksgiving" was in honor of the US Constitution stating that in 1808 the US would abolish the African slave trade. 1787 is when the provision was written. That is where they give Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina 20 years to abolish slavery. Keep in mind the dates. Amazing.

If you missed the progam, here is a link to watch:

http://www.watchglennbeck.com/

Also, the title of the book is American History in Black and White , by David Barton.

Here is the 1855 textbook by William Cooper Nell, a black historian who was the first black to hold federal office:

http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/nell/nell.html

Here's the link to watch the show:

http://watchglennbeck.com/video/2010...Fathers-Part2/

I've had very little time to watch yesterday's and today's show. I saw a snippet or two of yesterday's finally realizing there was a guest host and I have issues with some of what little I saw. However, I have some free time coming up after tomorrow and I *will* catch up.

Originally Posted by djplong

I've had very little time to watch yesterday's and today's show. I saw a snippet or two of yesterday's finally realizing there was a guest host and I have issues with some of what little I saw. However, I have some free time coming up after tomorrow and I *will* catch up.

I must admit that I must watch todays again. Hard to follow. Yesterday was the judge sitting in for Beck. I like him but he is not Beck.

Yoda

The history lesson on the founders is on Friday djplong.