[getdul981]

My wife and I have been wondering what happens after 2015. There will be no more construction. TV will be as big as it can get. What happens to the ammenities and the ammenity fees. They will have to increase much more drastically to keep up with wages of the employees because there will not be any more new people moving in. Everyone will have to pay more each and eery year. Has this been discussed before and we were late to the party or has there been some sort of arrangement made for the future?

[batman911]

I breached the same subject on this site previously and never got an informed reply. Based on my experiences, after build out, the developer subsidies will vanish. At that point, fees will need to be raised or maintenance of the facilities will suffer. Raising the fees may be difficult if it takes a majority vote of the homeowners. Most Villagers are on fixed income and not everyone uses the facitlities. I believe that to be one of the serious questions that has the potential to affect the life style quality.

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by getdul981

My wife and I have been wondering what happens after 2015. There will be no more construction. TV will be as big as it can get. What happens to the ammenities and the ammenity fees. They will have to increase much more drastically to keep up with wages of the employees because there will not be any more new people moving in. Everyone will have to pay more each and eery year. Has this been discussed before and we were late to the party or has there been some sort of arrangement made for the future?

This topic has been brought up a number of times. Respondents speculate but the general consensus is that there are far too many variables to substantiate your conclusion. For one, it is very possible that construction may continue well past 2015. There are a number of large undeveloped tracts adjacent to TV. The 'hot' rumor this week is that Morse Blvd. will soon connect to the Turnpike, through an area at least as big as the section between 466A and 44. If the developer stopped building, I would submit the amenity fee level would more than cover the costs of maintenance. Remember, the Developer was successfully sued by residents of Districts 1-4 because funds from their amenity fees were being used to develop the facilities in the newer districts. I guess you could say those were 'excess' funds. Also, the provisions of that suit include more careful monitoring and control of how amenity fees are spent. There are more reasons but

OK, here's my prediction: None of us current residents will live to see the day when the TV infrastructure is in any kind of serious decline.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

This topic has been brought up a number of times. Respondents speculate but the general consensus is that there are far too many variables to substantiate your conclusion. For one, it is very possible that construction may continue well past 2015. There are a number of large undeveloped tracts adjacent to TV. The 'hot' rumor this week is that Morse Blvd. will soon connect to the Turnpike, through an area at least as big as the section between 466A and 44. If the developer stopped building, I would submit the amenity fee level would more than cover the costs of maintenance. Remember, the Developer was successfully sued by residents of Districts 1-4 because funds from their amenity fees were being used to develop the facilities in the newer districts. I guess you could say those were 'excess' funds. Also, the provisions of that suit include more careful monitoring and control of how amenity fees are spent. There are more reasons but

OK, here's my prediction: None of us current residents will live to see the day when the TV infrastructure is in any kind of serious decline.

Yes. I agree. The build out thing is just not gonna happen for a long time. Why would they quit doing what they do so well and just when a huge surge of Boomers is coming along.

My prediction is that it will be tweaked and become EVEN better. Wider cart paths, different style houses and maybe even some two stories so we can have lots of kids visit us, but can close it off. There will be a campus for Life Long Learning College and a Symphony Hall. There will be fences for those who want them but they will all be the same kind, wrought iron to let the breezes in and so they will all be uniform and lovely.

And just when it gets absolutely "wonderfuller"......Gabriel will blow his horn.

I will hate when that happens.

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Yes. I agree. The build out thing is just not gonna happen for a long time. Why would they quit doing what they do so well and just when a huge surge of Boomers is coming along.

My prediction is that it will be tweaked and become EVEN better. Wider cart paths, different style houses and maybe even some two stories so we can have lots of kids visit us, but can close it off. There will be a campus for Life Long Learning College and a Symphony Hall. There will be fences for those who want them but they will all be the same kind, wrought iron to let the breezes in and so they will all be uniform and lovely.

And just when it gets absolutely "wonderfuller"......Gabriel will blow his horn.

I will hate when that happens.

Pitch Perfect!

[getdul981]

It would be nice if more property were to be purchased and the process could be continued, but I'm so afraid that something will happen and no property would be available. We're already committed to move to TV, so we can only hope that the whole thing doesn't come crashing down some day. Haven't you ever heard that if something sounds too good to be true, then it probably isn't true. We've kinda got that feeling about TV. I guess we'll enjoy it as long as it lasts or as long as we last, whichever comes first.

[kentucky blue]

Originally Posted by getdul981

. Haven't you ever heard that if something sounds too good to be true, then it probably isn't true. We've kinda got that feeling about TV. I guess we'll enjoy it as long as it lasts or as long as we last, whichever comes first.

Don't you worry for one second, this is Disney World on steroids, all your dreams will come true.Just drink the kool-aid and don't concern yourself about a thing...............don't worry be happy.

[Pats2010]

Originally Posted by kentucky blue

Don't you worry for one second, this is Disney World on steroids, all your dreams will come true.Just drink the kool-aid and don't concern yourself about a thing...............don't worry be happy.

Do I detect a trace of sarcasm?

[getdul981]

Sounds like we will all be eatin' Rainbow Stew. I posted this link somewhere else, but it seems fitting here too.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez24yjqRGLs[/ame]

[BogeyBoy]

Current plans, as I recall, are for just under 56,000 homes at buildout. At $130 per month that is over $87 million. Add into that some other fees that we pay (I'm not positive where some of that money is directed, i.e. trail fees, greens fees for guests on executive courses, fitness facility fees, etc.), and you've got a pretty large chunk of change.

There is quite a bit of land just south of 44 that another developer was going to build out about 5 years ago. The land is still undeveloped. Perhaps TV will buy that out and keep going. As stated earlier, they do own land by the Turnpike and there are plans to build a on/off ramp that will connect with Morse Blvd.

The only thing that will stop them in Coleman Prison, unless they do a market analysis and there is a demand for homes overlooking razor wire.

[jerseyvillager]

Talk about a bunch of "worry worts."

Stop! Smell the roses. Enjoy.

[Bogie Shooter]

The sky is fallling...the sky is falling. Oh no!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by kentucky blue

Don't you worry for one second, this is Disney World on steroids, all your dreams will come true.Just drink the kool-aid and don't concern yourself about a thing...............don't worry be happy.

Our dreams have come true. Many have been living here for years.

But even if we G's have had only two years, they have been a WONDERFUL two years.

Tomorrow, anyone could have a stroke, get a cancer diagnosis, be killed by a drunk driver.

AND if the IRS made all the of the great things disappear, I guess that at the very worst we would end up with a house in Central Florida with 80,000 like minded people.

We are fine. Don't worry about us. We live in Disney land.

[redwitch]

I think the simple answer is .... we don't know. We can guess; we can predict; but we just have no idea. On the plus side, a lot of needed improvements are occurring now (widening cart paths north of 466, the recent improvements to Morse).

I do believe that there will some deterioration once the Morses are done, but probably not as much as the pessimists think.

It is good to enjoy TV as it is right now. To think it will always be this way is not realistic. There is a limit to the amount of land available. The Morses have their own plans and agendas to which we are not privvy. A lot will depend on what present and near-future homeowners want and are willing to pay for. Some things will have to paid for regardless of what anyone wants.

I'd love to live in Gracie's world but I really don't foresee all the wonderful things she does (but they sure would be nice). I also don't foresee TV becoming an elaborate trailer park (albeit with "real" houses) for old folks. I think the rec centers and pools will continue to be well-maintained. The counties will make sure the roads stay in good condition. Activities will continue so long as there are volunteers to run them. Maintenance fees will probably be raised but I doubt to an exorbitant rate.

Sadly, I think this is a wait and see situation. We can enjoy what we have while we have it.

[NJblue]

I think people need to recognize that there are two distinct entities at play here: the developer (Morse) and the CDD. There are also two distinct fees at play: the amenity fee that we pay monthly and the maintenance fee that we pay along with our taxes. In order to understand these four items one needs to know how they interplay.

A) Let's start with the developer. Morse currently owns and/or controls:

1) all undeveloped lands and unsold houses & lots
2) all commercial space (both in the town squares and other commercial areas in TV
3) SOME of the executive courses and recreation facilities - including much of what is south of 466.
4) The Entertainment Division which is responsible for entertainment at the town squares, Katie Bells and much of what is presented at the Savannah Center.


B) The CDD is a separate entity from Morse and owns/controls:

1) all executive courses and recreation centers that have been purchased from the developer. This currently includes all that above 466 and some below. The plan is for the CDD to purchase the remaining facilities south of 466. My guess is that this transfer of the fully developed parts below 466 is being held up to some extent by the IRS issue associated with the tax status of the bonds that will have to be issued to complete subsequent purchases.

2) infrastructure like the waste water treatment plants.

3) Maintenance and landscaping for all common areas.

4) The recreation staff.

5) The safety personnel.


C) The amenity fee is the fee that is used to support SOME of the above. Specifically it is used to pay for A-3, B-1, and B-4. Note that some of the amenity money goes to the developer. This makes sense because he still owns a lot of the amenities. The CDD collects the fees and then in turn gives them to the developer who in turn pays the CDD to operate the amenities that are still owned by the developer. In a presentation by Janet Tutt (head of the CDD), she said that she wants to see the transfer of more of the southern amenities to the CDD since she will then have the full amenity fees for these areas to work with rather than just the part that the developer pays the CDD to operate them for him. This implies that there are no subsidies. However, note that the amenities owned by the CDD (all of that above 466 and some below) are supported by the amenity fee only. An important thing to consider is that the purchase agreement that you sign when buying in TV is that the amenity fee is directly tied to the inflation rate - that is, it can only go up at the rate of inflation.

D) The maintenance fees are used by the CDD to maintain the common areas, including the landscaping (item B3). Unlike the amenity fee, there is no inflation protection for this fee.

Note, there are additional charges for fire/safety as well as water/sewer to pay for items B-2 and B-5.

From the above, you can see that there are some obvious subsidies (most notably item A-4, the entertainment.) While the exchange of amenity fees back and forth between the CDD and the developer for the operation of recreation facilities south of 466 leaves some potential for creative book keeping and hence some subsidies, one has to recognize that all CDD operations fall under the Florida Sunshine Laws and are subject to outside auditing. However, based on the statement by Tutt and the fact that the areas north of 466 are only supported by amenity fees, I tend to believe that the amenity fees are more than adequate to support the amenities.

So, where does this leave us at buildout? Presumably at some point after that all of the amenities will have been purchased by the CDD (by issuing bonds - see below) and the CDD will receive 100% of the amenity fees and will be able to operate the amenities with that inflow of money as they currently are above 466. Also, the CDD will continue to use the maintenance fees for common area maintenance and landscaping as they currently are. The big question may be about the entertainment that the developer currently pays for. That is anyone's guess. However, if the devloper maintains control of all of the commercial property in the town squares (which may be likely since it constitutes a huge ongoing cash flow), he has an incentive to continue to pay for the entertainment since this is what partially justifies the higher rent that he gets.

One caveat on this is the bonds that the CDD will have to issue to purchase the remaining amenities. If they turn out to be taxable versus tax free (as the current bonds were issued and are now being contested by the IRS), then the interest rates that they will have to pay for these bonds will have to go up and the cost to the CDD will be greater. This could put a crimp in the business case for this transfer of properties.