[retiredguy123]

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

Who is this post targeted at? 99% of the people reading this have already completed their careers. I doubt any of us are worried about our future job prospects.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

This is the same message I have given my teenage grandchildren.

I admonished them to major in something useful, not underwater basket weaving or the like.

Before ‘Dirty Jobs,’ Mike Rowe Was Actually A Professional Opera Singer – Country Music Nation

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

So if everybody goes to college who is going to do the hard work?

[Stu from NYC]

Lots of jobs out there for people without college degrees that pay well. Not sure that everyone should go to college, some people not cut out to be students but have other god given abilities.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

I was at Buc-ee's recently and they had a help wanted sign out. For low level positions, pay started at $17 an hour (for cashier, maintenance, grocery stocker) plus great benefits (3 Weeks Paid Time Off (USE IT, CASH IT, ROLL IT), Medical - Dental - Vision, and 401K with a 100% Match up to 6%). $17 an hour is $34,000 a year.

Assistant Manager was posted at $100,000+, Car Wash Manager was posted at $125,000+, and the General Manager was posted at $150,000-$225,000+.

For the management positions, I thought that they might require a college degree but for the Assistant General Manager position, their website says college Degree from college or university or 1-2 years or more related experience and/or training; or equivalent combination of education and experience in job related field.

A lot of my work colleagues had more than $100,000 in student debt and they were not making $100,000 a year!

[Michael G.]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree.

Not a good idea for those that thrive on hard work first
and high paying job second.

Some advice I heard once:
"Find yourself a career that you like it so much, you would it for free".

Far fitch from the: "How much does it pay generation of 2023".

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

That was great advice in the late 1970's, when colleges and universities were affordable, you could get guaranteed student loans from the government and start paying monthly a full year after you graduated, and were allowed to defer your loan if you fell on hardships.

It was great, back when your earnings with that college degree, were typically enough to cover the cost of those loans (perhaps with a year or two deferral over the course of a 10-year loan).

Here's the costs for FSU:

$23,486 is the "full tuition" which most people don't ever have to pay. That's their MSRP. The "overcharge" they impose so they can pretend you're getting a great discount if you aren't paying full price.

The most anyone actually pays is $16,126, if their household income is over $110,001 per year.

If you're living in poverty and your household is pulling in less than $30,000/year you only have to pay $4,950 per year to attend, after you get all your aid and scholarships and grant money.

But wait - if your parents are only earning $30,000 per year - where is that $4950 coming from to pay the annual expense of going to college?

Even more - if you don't live near that college, you will need to pay for an apartment, or room/board in a dorm. That's extra. Who's paying for that? If you commute, who's buying you your car and paying for the insurance and gas? Remember if you come from poverty, it's not likely your parents have ever had enough money for an extra vehicle for their kid(s).

Compare with community college - I checked North Florida College, a 2-year school. Their "price that no one actually ever pays" is $12,754/year. If you earn more than $110,001 and get all the aid available, you only pay $6,401/year. If you live in poverty with household income under $30k, your cost after aid is only $1206/year. That - you can easily save up working part time weekends during your 4 years of high school at Burger King so your parents don't have to inconvenience themselves by going without such luxuries as - food - to pay for Johnny to get an Associates degree in something.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That was great advice in the late 1970's, when colleges and universities were affordable, you could get guaranteed student loans from the government and start paying monthly a full year after you graduated, and were allowed to defer your loan if you fell on hardships.

It was great, back when your earnings with that college degree, were typically enough to cover the cost of those loans (perhaps with a year or two deferral over the course of a 10-year loan).

Here's the costs for FSU:

$23,486 is the "full tuition" which most people don't ever have to pay. That's their MSRP. The "overcharge" they impose so they can pretend you're getting a great discount if you aren't paying full price.

The most anyone actually pays is $16,126, if their household income is over $110,001 per year.

If you're living in poverty and your household is pulling in less than $30,000/year you only have to pay $4,950 per year to attend, after you get all your aid and scholarships and grant money.

But wait - if your parents are only earning $30,000 per year - where is that $4950 coming from to pay the annual expense of going to college?

Even more - if you don't live near that college, you will need to pay for an apartment, or room/board in a dorm. That's extra. Who's paying for that? If you commute, who's buying you your car and paying for the insurance and gas? Remember if you come from poverty, it's not likely your parents have ever had enough money for an extra vehicle for their kid(s).

Compare with community college - I checked North Florida College, a 2-year school. Their "price that no one actually ever pays" is $12,754/year. If you earn more than $110,001 and get all the aid available, you only pay $6,401/year. If you live in poverty with household income under $30k, your cost after aid is only $1206/year. That - you can easily save up working part time weekends during your 4 years of high school at Burger King so your parents don't have to inconvenience themselves by going without such luxuries as - food - to pay for Johnny to get an Associates degree in something.

Excellent post.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Lots of jobs out there for people without college degrees that pay well. Not sure that everyone should go to college, some people not cut out to be students but have other god given abilities.

Completely agree.

[shut the front door]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I was at Buc-ee's recently and they had a help wanted sign out. For low level positions, pay started at $17 an hour (for cashier, maintenance, grocery stocker) plus great benefits (3 Weeks Paid Time Off (USE IT, CASH IT, ROLL IT), Medical - Dental - Vision, and 401K with a 100% Match up to 6%). $17 an hour is $34,000 a year.

Assistant Manager was posted at $100,000+, Car Wash Manager was posted at $125,000+, and the General Manager was posted at $150,000-$225,000+.

For the management positions, I thought that they might require a college degree but for the Assistant General Manager position, their website says college Degree from college or university or 1-2 years or more related experience and/or training; or equivalent combination of education and experience in job related field.

A lot of my work colleagues had more than $100,000 in student debt and they were not making $100,000 a year!

Totally agree. My DIL has a Bachelors and post grad degrees, no student loan because it was all scholarship. She makes 32K per year. She took 1 year off from college to work and save money. During that year, she made 75k waiting tables at a high end restaurant.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by shut the front door

Totally agree. My DIL has a Bachelors and post grad degrees, no student loan because it was all scholarship. She makes 32K per year. She took 1 year off from college to work and save money. During that year, she made 75k waiting tables at a high end restaurant.

Interesting that kids will go get a degree, run up huge college loans in an area that has no market to offer degree holders.

Would be nice if universities would point this out to them early on.

[Number 10 GI]

If a college degree is a sure route to success and fortune, why do we hear so many stories of college graduates working in labor jobs or can't find a job at all. There are stories all over the place about college educated mid-level management people being laid off. Just like the market place can be over saturated with a certain product which causes the demand and price to fall, the same can be with too many college graduates. More grads than jobs.

My nephew makes $100K+ as an auto mechanic and has no school loan debt. It is very possible that had he gone to college and chose a degree with a future he would probably be making more money, but he had no desire for further education. If a person has a skill in a trade with a demand for workers, you can make good money.

[tuccillo]

What you study matters. For example, science, engineering, and math degrees may provide better employment opportunities than many liberal arts degrees. Regarding your mechanic nephew, he likely had some additional education in order to become a mechanic or he served some sort of apprenticeship. He may have some mechanic's certifications such as ASE, which required some education.

For me, undergraduate and graduate school were "trade schools" where I went to learn the hard science that I practiced for 40 years. There was essentially no access to the information other than universities. Also, without the university degrees, I would not be hired.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

If a college degree is a sure route to success and fortune, why do we hear so many stories of college graduates working in labor jobs or can't find a job at all. There are stories all over the place about college educated mid-level management people being laid off. Just like the market place can be over saturated with a certain product which causes the demand and price to fall, the same can be with too many college graduates. More grads than jobs.

My nephew makes $100K+ as an auto mechanic and has no school loan debt. It is very possible that had he gone to college and chose a degree with a future he would probably be making more money, but he had no desire for further education. If a person has a skill in a trade with a demand for workers, you can make good money.

[manaboutown]

Back when I started elementary school in 1948 the relatively small grade school I attended drew from a diverse neighborhood, not so much racially (although I did learn to cuss in Spanish from a couple classmates) but socioeconomically. In particular I remember our teacher divided our reading out loud sessions into three groups, redbirds, bluebirds and yellowbirds. It was quite apparent which group comprised the best and which the worst readers. By third grade the differences in reading skill levels astonished me. Some could barely read "Run Spot Run" whereas others read at the 8th grade level and possibly beyond. I remember at least once being lined up according to reading skill level and our teacher announcing standardized test results, something that would never happen today - shudder.

It seems to me a track system such as in Germany produces the best all around results.

"Although most Germans claim to be against elitism and favoring any social class, their entire educational system is basically a three-class system that divides students into three different tracks: (1) Gymnasium for bright students headed for college, (2) Realschule for the next step down, kids headed for average or better white-collar positions, and (3) Hauptschule for the bottom tier, generally aimed at the trades and blue-collar jobs. By the age of 10 most pupils in Germany have been put on one of these three educational tracks. But it has become easier to switch tracks, and this is now more common in Germany than it used to be."

https://www.german-way.com/history-a...school-system/