[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Wilson02852

Next time your toilet doesn't flush call your college graduate. The education system in this country is mostly a total failure. What happened to "comprehensive " high schools? Those Phds in education sure know how to screw things up. They are not much better then the law school mill graduates.

I would just point out that, when most people have a toilet that won't flush, they don't call a college graduate, but they also don't call a plumber. Usually, they fix it themselves, call a handyman, or ask for advice on TOTV.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

As a retired university professor, I would say that while you are close to right in saying that at some schools (including mine), [almost] anyone can get a degree, despite a lack of intelligence, people like that often get what they deserve—low level jobs suitable for their ability that may make much less money than does a good plumber or electrician. A college degree DOES NOT guarantee a good job or a high salary. Lots of college grads end up waiting tables and working on landscaping crews. One of my sons—smart, with mostly A grades—works in a warehouse. I’d say that kids who don’t know what they want to do with their lives should stay out of college until they do. And if they want to go to college just to get a diploma, ideally without learning anything, they don’t deserve to go to college.

Actually, I’d rather like to see a required military or service commitment of a couple years for both young men and women after they finish high school, as is done in Israel. When they get out, they are more likely to know what they do or don’t want to do with their lives.

Also, kids like that aren’t likely to do well in the trades, either. A lot of what people do in trades takes a lot of intelligence, analytical ability, math ability, reading ability.

Thanks. I agree that a college degree does not guarantee that you will get a good job. My career was in the Federal Government where more than 80 percent of the work is done by less than 20 percent of the employees. I knew a lot of really dumb people who made well over $100K only because they had a college degree. I think that is also true for a lot of smaller Governments and large organizations. I don't agree that young people who don't know what they want to do with their lives should stay out of college. At least they will get a degree that may be useful at some point in the future.

[MidWestIA]

There are people that college isn't a good fit for but a trade, or sales or starting a company is a great fit. If they can afford a life style and retirement they like it's better for them.

I can't tell you how many college degrees I have run into doing a job where a degree is not needed - wasn't worth it for them

[guitarguy]

I am a retired industrial education teacher and high school principal. We had a recruiter from a tech school at our school several times a year just like the colleges. He researched the readily available federal labor statistics and would show kids how less than 2 years of post high school technical training would provide them a lifetime income greater than 75% of all college grads. He just presented facts.
His presentation was outstanding. His major in college was DRAMA. He always exclaimed he performed daily in front of high school students.

[kendi]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Back when I started elementary school in 1948 the relatively small grade school I attended drew from a diverse neighborhood, not so much racially (although I did learn to cuss in Spanish from a couple classmates) but socioeconomically. In particular I remember our teacher divided our reading out loud sessions into three groups, redbirds, bluebirds and yellowbirds. It was quite apparent which group comprised the best and which the worst readers. By third grade the differences in reading skill levels astonished me. Some could barely read "Run Spot Run" whereas others read at the 8th grade level and possibly beyond. I remember at least once being lined up according to reading skill level and our teacher announcing standardized test results, something that would never happen today - shudder.

It seems to me a track system such as in Germany produces the best all around results.

"Although most Germans claim to be against elitism and favoring any social class, their entire educational system is basically a three-class system that divides students into three different tracks: (1) Gymnasium for bright students headed for college, (2) Realschule for the next step down, kids headed for average or better white-collar positions, and (3) Hauptschule for the bottom tier, generally aimed at the trades and blue-collar jobs. By the age of 10 most pupils in Germany have been put on one of these three educational tracks. But it has become easier to switch tracks, and this is now more common in Germany than it used to be."

https://www.german-way.com/history-a...school-system/

Very sad to label someone by their intellectual level especially at such an early age. That is grooming them into a certain way of life. There are amazingly intelligent people who don’t do well in school. And there are not so intelligent people who do well at an early age. As a child therapist I can tell you that there are many reasons why an intelligent person may not do well academically. It’s a sad state of affairs when Academics is the sole guide for defining intelligence level.

[Carla B]

My spouse was successful as a self-employed, highly skilled electrician who was able to keep needed union benefits when he left employment with a contractor. Going self-employed and working hard enabled his retirement at age 55. He took a few college classes for self-enrichment along the way but his fulfillment was enjoying doing electrical work, ranging from installing giant printing presses to ceiling fans for homeowners. Doesn't feel cheated or inferior by not having a college degree in the least.

[Regorp]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

My son got a 5 year degree in computer engineering, found a great job immediately, makes a lot more than I ever earned, works remotely, moved here with us, buying a new home in July. College worked well for him. Peace!!

[Heytubes]

I’ve employed people with PHD’s, Master degrees and BS degrees. More than half lacked common sense. They lasted less than a month. I, as a HS graduate (bottom of my class as I was bored with school), along with a few credit hours of college, built a small successful contracting company with many employees with with only a HS education or GED. We all made good money. Common sense is tantamount to higher education.

[MrFlorida]

You need to get a degree so you can pay the craftsman to do the work for you....( I'll bet he makes as much as you do )

[jparsoneau@aol.com]

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with either. Depends on the person and what their goals are.
However, I have seen people go to college for years to get their degree only to not be able to get a job using their degree.
I have never seen anybody go to a trade, school and graduate trade school without going to work in the trade they went to school for.
For what it’s worth I have no college and went into the trades.

[Dgodin]

I gave my boys 3 choices. College, tech school, or the military.
They both joined the military. One used his GI bill and is a teacher. The other is still in the military but finished his degree off duty.
Tech school or military careers are just as legitimate a choice as college.

[Salty Dog]

I spent most of my working life (32 years) in the military. When I enlisted in the Coast Guard as a teenager (low draft lottery number), I had completed one semester of junior college. I retired from the Coast Guard over 20 years ago at the ripe old age of 50. I'm not rich, but live a comfortable life.

Someone currently in the Coast Guard at the rank that I retired at is making around $150k a year with at least 20% of that non-taxable. Still no college degree required.

[Karmanng]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

When a person graduates from high school, my advice to them is to go to college and get a 4-year degree. Anyone can get a degree, even those who are not very intelligent. And with proper planning, you don't need to go deeply into debt. But recently, some people are promoting the idea to skip college and to learn a trade, like welding or plumbing. It is interesting that most of these people already have college degrees, like Mike Rowe, who is always promoting trade schools. I don't have anything against Mike Rowe, but he has a net worth of $30 million, that he didn't earn by being a welder. With a college degree, you will always have more opportunities to get a higher paying job, that does not require hard work, than someone with no degree. Just my opinion.

ACTUALLY i went to college did not finish community one at that. AND I have to say that I have done very well for myself and retired at age 53.......2 years ahead of my goal of 55.............college isnt for everyone and most do not follow in the degrees that they went for. its ALL about HARD work working 2 or 3 jobs if you can and if you want too.......starting EARLY with investing and NOT spending stupidly!!!!!!!!!!

[Gator_Girl]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

So if everybody goes to college who is going to do the hard work?

Those who aren't able to get a college degree

[FredJacobs]

College isn't for everyone. Most people in blue collar jobs didn't get them because they couldn't find anything else Most decided to be a plumber, welder or auto mechanic because that was what they enjoyed doing or it was a family business. Should a butcher have gone to college?

Not all college degrees lead to high paying jobs. For example, the kid who expects to graduate with a Fine Arts Degree wouldn't be able to find their first job paying $35,000 - with few raises - unless they own the gallery.

Not all high school graduates are cut out for higher education. If they just squeaked by in High School, why would they find college easier?

Thomas Jefferson realized that not all students are destined for higher education and the world needed people to do the blue collar work. Jefferson proposed that everyone get a primary education - probably up to 12 years old. At that point each student would be tested to see if they would be able to handle a High School curriculum. After graduation, they would be tested to determine if they could pass college courses. This would avoid the "Peter Principal" - rising to the best of your ability and not beyond. An example of the Peter Principal - Your National Sales Manager leaves and you replace him/her with the best salesperson in the field. Now, this person knows sales but doesn't know a thing about administration, leadership, etc. - and is now stuck in a position that they are incapable of doing.