[OldDave]

I finally broke down and spent $8 on Amazon and read Leisureville. I plan to read the other two books I know about also (including the one here, although it seems a bit expensive for an e-book.)

I'll say right off before I ask my questions, I don't think the author's resentment and resistence to age restricted communities makes any sense. He talks about the Villages not being real. His idea of his older neighbors loving his family and children is more imaginary in many of our lives than the Villages. For many of us our children are grown and gone, and there really isn't much in our towns we care about. Our kids love us and will always come to visit, but they're a lot more likely to visit us in Florida. And I think it is easy for younger people to lose site how how terrifying a coating of ice or snow is for those of us with no balance and difficultly walking. Not to mention just being tired of freezing in the winter. The Villages seems like a great idea to me. (Oh, and too the sex maniacs he met and seemed so bothered by, hey good for them!) OK, to my questions.

There are some things he brings up which concern me and I'd really like your response. (Those of you who just hate these guy and the book, please restrict your comments to those on these points, if you don't mind.)

The most problematic topic is "what happens after the build out?" His chapter on where Sun City is now caused me to stop and think. Whether you like the Morse family or not, they are here to make money. Yes, it sounds like they've built a nice product, but from what little I understand about the structure, they will be gone after it is finished or at least not really movitated to supply new and exciting activities. Their income is in houses. What do you think? Can this eventually become a city and sustain itself? Of will it go the way of that other small community he mentioned in AZ and let everyone in.

Second, how does the lack of an actual government set with you? Sure it's easy to say you didn't like the government back where you used to live. Few people do. But are you, at some level, worried that a company is making decisions that effect your lives. Many people here comment about how well they are taken care of, but is that tempered by the knowledge that at some point in the future, the company won't need to make you happy any longer, after the last lot is sold.

Any other thoughts about his concerns or others?

Again, please don't bother with flaming the book or the guy. I didn't find him to be a particularly good writer. And I can say as a journalist myself, he tried in no way to be an unbiased reporter of the facts. But I want to know your honest concerns. As I've said in another post, this is a huge decision for us. Posts that say, "hey don't worry, be happy" just don't help much. I really need to know what real people feel.

Finally, I know if we do move there I will have to do what my son said. "Dad if you do, you're going to have to drink the kool-aid and like it, or you'll never be happy." I raised and awfully smart son. And a part of me actually wants to drink the kool-aid, but I do want to think about it first.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[CarGuys]

I never liked the Kool Aid-comments. That entrapment of people was Horrific! And this place is not a prison. There are many dynamic and intelligent people housed within the communities . As for leisureville. Well for my own reasons I am not ever going to read the book.

I competely agree with you about the kids growing up and moving on. I hear friends say "We are so happy your moving" I have heard, " Gasp your out of your mind going to Florida!" and we have heard " How can you leave those darling Grand Children?"

We feel that The Villages has offered us many more opportunities and positives than negatives. You can second guess yourself all day but until we live in TV and experience TV for several years I am not able to give accurate feedback.

I will say there is Hype after the intital visit and the a huge reality check when you make the final decision to move.

Our turn to experience starts in July. We have watched this site for years and have friends that have lived in TV for 14 years. We visited 5 years ago and every year after to see if it would implode? And yes we do worry somewhat if the place will be abondoned by the Family and go to H--

If we are comfortable and like it as we anticipate life will be what we hoped for. Not perfect but comfortable. And our kids as of now are more excited to come visit us in Fla than Syracuse NY.

If this turns into a uncomfortable atmosphere then the wagon wheels can roll to new adventures! As Gracie has said, " Once you down size and get rid of the " Stuff" it gets somewhat easier!

Good Post should generate some stimulating conversations!

Regards Herv- CarGuys

[keithwand]

We read the book in Dec. 2011 and suggested the book to a lot of our friends. My wife especially had her mind made up about TV and it was negative even though we had never visited re the CDD's etc. and thought how many people can be that ignorant?
Actually I guess it would have had to be 80,000 plus.

We visited friends in Jan. 2012. Had drinks at City Fires corner porch. Met friends and friends of friends and more. Someone slipped something in her drink when she wasn't looking...a few drops of the infamous Koolaid.

We close on our new Villages home 6/26/2012 and can't wait.

Re Mr. Midnight. Really; he's out that late? Sells books though.

[JimJoe]

My wife and I have been to TV many times and always had a great time. I have met very few (if any) residents who do not love it.
The future can hold anything. Research and decide.
I love the diverse seasons up north so I am still a looker.
As mom always said:
To Each His Own.
JJ

[elevatorman]

What happens after the buildout? Take a look at The Villages north of 466. It is built out and the developer does not have control, the CDD does.
Our government is in the form of a CDD, if you go to this link it is explained better than I can do it. Village Community Development Districts

[CarGuys]

Quote (Someone slipped something in her drink when she wasn't looking...a few drops of the infamous Koolaid.)

Ok I am not going to win on this one. As a young man seeing those dead peoples pictures and reading about the event troubled me.

And when we a Villagers post drink the Kool-Aid it brings up Jonestown. Now I am not being mean or trying to start trouble or pick on anyone who uses the term Kool-Aid . In fact as a CarGuy I HATE Kool-Aid the nasty carpet seat staining automotive electrical destruction stuff!

I ask could we not come as Villagers with something better that drinking the Kool-Aid

Jack Daniels! Scotch - Wine- Beer! or for some Smoking POT! but Gee are we all getting hearded down to the Town Square one night for the final Kool-Aid happy hour?


In November 1978, California Congressman Leo Ryan arrived in Guyana to survey Jonestown and interview its inhabitants. After reportedly having his life threatened by a Temple member during the first day of his visit, Ryan decided to cut his trip short and return to the U.S. with some Jonestown residents who wished to leave. As they boarded their plane, a group of Jones's guards opened fire on them, killing Ryan and four others.

From infoplease :

Some members of Ryan's party escaped, however. Upon learning this, Jones told his followers that Ryan's murder would make it impossible for their commune to continue functioning. Rather than return to the United States, the People's Temple would preserve their church by making the ultimate sacrifice: their own lives. Jones's 912 followers were given a deadly concoction of a purple drink mixed with cyanide, sedatives, and tranquilizers. Jones apparently shot himself in the head.

Read more: The Jonestown Massacre The Jonestown Massacre

[OldDave]

As always in true life and this forum, we have drifted away from the question. Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Anyone else have something to comment on about my original question? (and as to the red vs blue) I think it's safe to say the folks who run the place are 100% republican, so the split of individuals may not matter much. And I'm with the last poster, talking about religion and politics is not a good idea. I don't believe anyone ever had their views on either topic changed by talking to someone else, but it sure has started lots of fights and caused lots of hurt feelings.

[CaptJohn]

It seems to me that most everyone likes it now, so the thing to do is move in now while all is well and when one perceives it no longer is a fun place, then time to pack up and find another place. Those choices are very individual and will differ from person to person.
The good times may go on well past our lifetime.

[OldDave]

That's great Capt. unless your house is worth 1/2 of what you paid for it. I think this place looks much better done than Sun City. Hell, I don't think Del Webb had a clue as to what he was really building. From what I've read he was the most surprised guy on the planet when it took off.

Hey, as to kool-aid, I told CarGuy that I was sorry for saying that. I had forgetten, but the pictures of all the people, especially little kids all over in the tropical heat...(I'm not going further in the description) that was really horrible. In my mind I don't normally make the connection between that and Jonestown, but he's right, that is where it came from. I should remember that day well because it happened on my 30th birthday. I think we may have to drink the orange juice instead. (although I remember a campaign by General Foods to quickly point out it wasn't actually koolaid, but some other kind of drink mix.

[bike42]

Originally Posted by OldDave

[First question] . . . "what happens after the build out?" . . . Whether you like the Morse family or not, they are here to make money. . . . Their income is in houses . . .

Second, how does the lack of an actual government set with you?

1) The Morse family and all of its subsidiary companies make a lot of money on new houses, but once the homes are all built, they will continue to have a huge perpetual source of income from the commercial properties. Your house and its land is sold to you, but all of the stores, restaurants, medical offices and so forth are on land owned by The Villages. The lease/rental income will support the Morse family and many others for generations to come. They have nothing but incentives to keep TV a beautiful place because they want patrons for the businesses. They will also continue to make money on sales and financing of resale homes.

2) The CDD form of government is a real government, sanctioned by the State of Florida and in use in 600+ other communities. You can get as involved as you want, or sit by and let others do the work (as most of us probably did in our former home towns.)

[keithwand]

Seriously she drinks Koolaid; pink lemonade flavor along with way to much diet coke.

[mgjim]

Originally Posted by CarGuys

Quote (Someone slipped something in her drink when she wasn't looking...a few drops of the infamous Koolaid.)

I ask could we not come as Villagers with something better that drinking the Kool-Aid.

Jack Daniels! Scotch - Wine- Beer! or for some Smoking POT! but Gee are we all getting hearded down to the Town Square one night for the final Kool-Aid happy hour?

I'm with you and cast my vote for Jack Daniels!

[Villageshooter]

i am sure major changes will happen, however by that time we all will either be dead or have sold our houses and moved back to our families to live out our final days. If the whole place gets like north of 466 it will have lived its usefulness and yes there will be deterioration. However have you ever seen a neighborhood that didnt go somewhat downhill. There will be another place like this someplace else. The Morse kids have more $$ than they can ever spend. There is some young person out there somewhere that will have a great idea for folks to live somewhere.You just have to get the buyers to drink the kool-ade. Like we have!

[JoeC1947]

Originally Posted by Villageshooter

i am sure major changes will happen, however by that time we all will either be dead or have sold our houses and moved back to our families to live out our final days. If the whole place gets like north of 466 it will have lived its usefulness and yes there will be deterioration. However have you ever seen a neighborhood that didnt go somewhat downhill. There will be another place like this someplace else. The Morse kids have more $$ than they can ever spend. There is some young person out there somewhere that will have a great idea for folks to live somewhere.You just have to get the buyers to drink the kool-ade. Like we have!

huh?

[OldDave]

I have to agree with Joe's "huh?" We're talking about selling our house and using all of that money and maybe a little more to buy a house. I'm sorry I'm not glib enough to just let time run it's course and not worry about what my children or grandchildren could do with that money when we die. If the Villages dies in 20 years, it would concern me even if I were dead. OK, that sounds weird, but you know what I mean. I want to make a wise, informed decision before I drink the Jack Daniels.