[graciegirl]

WWII vet, 88, brutally beaten to death in Spokane, Wash. - U.S. News

My uncles fought in WWII. This gentleman was 88 years old. Again this was teens, more than one. How absolutely awful and cowardly and senseless. I cannot think of a punishment bad enough. They killed him by beating him. What could motivate such a thing?

[BobnBev]

suspects were described as black males of average build, 16 to 19 years old, wearing black clothing and red sneakers.

Nuff said

[blueash]

Originally Posted by BobnBev

suspects were described as black males of average build, 16 to 19 years old, wearing black clothing and red sneakers.

Nuff said

So you obviously read the link provided by GG and the only part you felt was worthy of comment was on the race and clothing of the suspects?

It sounds like Mr. Belton was a gem. Giving and generous. He will be missed. His death was senseless no matter what the age, race, sex, religion, clothing or ethnicity of the suspects. Nuff said.

[Bay Kid]

These kids are very bored. What they really need is to be working. The problem is most will never work. They need a focus. What will this world be like in 25 to 50 years? Someone will have to provide.

[graciegirl]

My kids knew not to EVER say the B word. It usually was followed by a stint of cleaning around the toilet.

Something has to change with how children are raised. It would be good if there was MORE parental responsibility. I would like to know more about these kids parents, although I was on my own at 18. Kids were expected to be independent earlier back when.

The training and directing and laying down the law has to start far earlier than teen years. That is the reason that parents are big and kids are little.

We started well before two directing children constantly verbally away from electrical outlets and shamed them even under five years old for pocketing things at stores. Harsh, but it worked.

It is too late to have too much power of persuasion when they are bigger than you are, unless you instill um...respect and a little fear unfortunately when they are young. If they respect their parents rules, generally they will respect their teachers, the police force and their bosses.

Right or wrong, those are the people who are in charge.

At least that is what I think.

[gomoho]

Why work when you can rob, sell drugs, or be on the welfare rolls and make enough money to get by? The system needs to be fixed before these killings will stop. Oh yeah and if they get bored they can just go out and kill someone.

There is currently a young black man on trial for shooting a 13 month old baby between the eyes while in his stroller. Now we have a 88 year old man beaten to
death. Who does that? These people have no moral compass and I have to believe
it all starts at home - problem is they don't have homes that support these moral values.

[redwitch]

How utterly tragic. A good man is needlessly gone. Nuff said.

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

My kids knew not to EVER say the B word. It usually was followed by a stint of cleaning around the toilet.

Something has to change with how children are raised. It would be good if there was MORE parental responsibility. I would like to know more about these kids parents, although I was on my own at 18. Kids were expected to be independent earlier back when.

The training and directing and laying down the law has to start far earlier than teen years. That is the reason that parents are big and kids are little.

We started well before two directing children constantly verbally away from electrical outlets and shamed them even under five years old for pocketing things at stores. Harsh, but it worked.

It is too late to have too much power of persuasion when they are bigger than you are, unless you instill um...respect and a little fear unfortunately when they are young. If they respect their parents rules, generally they will respect their teachers, the police force and their bosses.

Right or wrong, those are the people who are in charge.

At least that is what I think.

Well said!! You are right that it all starts at an early age. Parents cannot wait until they are teens to set boundaries and punishment for crossing those boundaries.

[Bucco]

Two issues raised in this discussion....first the issue of working versus not working.

We had a long discussion on a thread about the minimum wage here a short time ago. I never recall a thread or discussion on the raising of welfare levels.
Why do I bring this up...

"Bay State welfare recipients have little incentive to get jobs because government assistance pays better, according to a study by a Washington, D.C.-based libertarian think tank that pegs Massachusetts as the third-most generous in the nation in doling out welfare funds.

“Clearly, the level of benefits in Massachusetts acts as a disincentive to work,” said Michael Tanner, the lead author of the “Work Versus Welfare Trade-Off” study by the Cato Institute.

The institute found Massachusetts ranks third nationally with $42,515 in welfare benefits handed out to the “typical recipient,” behind Hawaii at $49,175, and Washington, D.C., at $43,099."

- See more at: Study: Welfare pays better | Boston Herald

In 13 states it is much more attractive to be on welfare than working for minimum wage. Why work.......

Second, someone commented on the race. While I find discussion of race uncomfortable and actually distasteful, IF I am to believe those posters who posted on the Zimmerman thread, then the race of these punks is a definitive factor.

There is a race problem in this country and it is about time, we recognize it runs TWO ways, and not one. I, for one, am tired of being made to feel guilty.

BUT...as I think Gracie has said a number of times...it always go back to the family and parenting. We actually make fun of marriage and family life....we smile at divorce.....we have a laugh about folks getting pregnant not out of love or family but to increase the welfare check. We are then made to feel guilty for discussing it.....what can you expect to come from generations of this ?

[Bavarian]

This has been going on for generations. The late Senator Daniel Moyanhan warned of this in the '60s. I do not know if it can be changed as so many generations have been raised away from the strictness that our parents had. There are also no more Religious Sisters and Brothers teaching in the Schools, they also ran a tight ship.

Will the youth listen to Dr. Carson, Bill Cosby, Dr. Walter E. Williams, Dr. Thomas Sowell, Ashton Kutcher?

[capecodbob]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Two issues raised in this discussion....first the issue of working versus not working.

We had a long discussion on a thread about the minimum wage here a short time ago. I never recall a thread or discussion on the raising of welfare levels.
Why do I bring this up...

"Bay State welfare recipients have little incentive to get jobs because government assistance pays better, according to a study by a Washington, D.C.-based libertarian think tank that pegs Massachusetts as the third-most generous in the nation in doling out welfare funds.

“Clearly, the level of benefits in Massachusetts acts as a disincentive to work,” said Michael Tanner, the lead author of the “Work Versus Welfare Trade-Off” study by the Cato Institute.

The institute found Massachusetts ranks third nationally with $42,515 in welfare benefits handed out to the “typical recipient,” behind Hawaii at $49,175, and Washington, D.C., at $43,099."

- See more at: Study: Welfare pays better | Boston Herald

In 13 states it is much more attractive to be on welfare than working for minimum wage. Why work.......

Second, someone commented on the race. While I find discussion of race uncomfortable and actually distasteful, IF I am to believe those posters who posted on the Zimmerman thread, then the race of these punks is a definitive factor.

There is a race problem in this country and it is about time, we recognize it runs TWO ways, and not one. I, for one, am tired of being made to feel guilty.

BUT...as I think Gracie has said a number of times...it always go back to the family and parenting. We actually make fun of marriage and family life....we smile at divorce.....we have a laugh about folks getting pregnant not out of love or family but to increase the welfare check. We are then made to feel guilty for discussing it.....what can you expect to come from generations of this ?

Just a side note to Bucco's excellent post...I heard here, on a Boston Talk Radio show yesterday that someone would have to earn just north of $50,000 to equal all the handouts here in MA. SO, why work?
BB

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

WWII vet, 88, brutally beaten to death in Spokane, Wash. - U.S. News

My uncles fought in WWII. This gentleman was 88 years old. Again this was teens, more than one. How absolutely awful and cowardly and senseless. I cannot think of a punishment bad enough. They killed him by beating him. What could motivate such a thing?

You asked for motivation......what motivates any of this stuff...

"(WMC-TV) - A Memphis man remains in the hospital at the burn unit after police say he was set on fire. Authorities identified two suspects wanted for the crime. Police say the man suffered injuries to most of his body.

Prior arrests meant Memphis police already had mug shots on file for 26-year-old Robert Glasper and 19-year-old Renard King. Police identified the two Thursday for allegedly being responsible for a horrific crime two weeks "

Police: Man doused with gasoline, set on fire in vacant lot - Action News 5 - Memphis, Tennessee

"Police are hoping surveillance video will help catch four suspects after a hot dog vender was robbed and attacked with a stolen hammer at a Ferguson Home Depot on Wednesday. view full article

A hot dog vendor at a Ferguson Home Depot was robbed of his cellphone and struck in the head with a hammer by four shoplifters. The incident occurred around 3 p.m on Wednesday. The Home Depot is located in St. Louis County at the 10900 block of New Halls Ferry Road. According the CBS St Louis, “the suspects are black men in their early 20s. Two of the suspects were wearing white t-shirts, one had a plaid shirt. The fourth was wearing a blue shirt and had his right arm in a cast.”

Ferguson Hot Dog Vendor at Home Depot Robbed and Beaten With Hammer for His Cell Phone | The Gateway Pundit

Senseless.....shameful......

[gomoho]

This morning the idea of social media is also being looked at playing a part in these killings. Kids are desensitized to the human factor because so much of our digital world is communication at an arm's length. No more looking someone in they eye, touching to show empathy, or sharing a good belly laugh together.

It is also being reported the recent Oklahoma killing may have been brought about as the result of a "gang initiation". I think if this is the case Chief Ford of Duncan Oklahoma needs to tighten his ship.

As far as the $ amount being quoted for welfare recipients - I would like to know if this number is derived from someone taking advantage of all programs available, is an average or exactly how this number was established.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by capecodbob

Just a side note to Bucco's excellent post...I heard here, on a Boston Talk Radio show yesterday that someone would have to earn just north of $50,000 to equal all the handouts here in MA. SO, why work?
BB

Trying to stay on thread here, but blaming all of this on poverty as many do does not wash with me anyway.....the poor of the 30's and 40's made it and I am sure there was crime but not like what is happening today.
They had one thing that Grace pointed out...a family, a discipline system..a focus.

We have lost all of that.....do you know, to your point, that while I was in Tampa I discovered that groups got together to train others how to beat the system....how to insure you never work ?

I am for for doing all we can help, but we are doing a poor job of insuring it is done correctly, with compassion and fairness. By not even discussing welfare versus min wage is wrong...no matter the accuracy of the numbers. IT IS AN ISSUE....again, we seem to be predisposed to make every thing political instead of using common sense.

[billethkid]

Spineless, cowards! Punks!

If the perpetrators had yellow hair and green skin would one not state....they had yellow hair and green skin? That certainly would not be racist. Nor is it racist to describe the perpetrators as "black".....it happens to be a descriptive fact.

btk