[PennBF]

Has anyone considered when The Village's outgrow the population at some point in the future what will happen? How will the potential problems be handled when TV just gets too big? As an example the key government construction is based on the Developers appointments/controls. I don't think anyone questions this. There is little question that at some point there will be a greater demand for a more basic form of a Democratic government. You can see some of the problems starting to pop up. The historic entertainment practices have changed, (e.g. no support for a majority of parades, the entertainment at the squares has become less in talents.) It is also noted that landscaping is not as good as it was and there are a lot more weeds and uncut bushes, etc).It does not take a lot to observe these changes. This may mean there are problems with the current growth and it will just get worse. The question is has anyone thought about this and what if anything is being done to put together plans for the future. Not planning for the future is really outrages as we will get into a reactive mod as opposed to a "proactive mod". Does anyone really think you can act the same way when the growth goes from 10,000 to over 100,000 without a
real form of a democracy? Just think this is something that should be debated.

[billethkid]

Depends upon whether the developer or his represents/business chooses to stay involved after buildout.

If he chooses to leave, like most planned developments there will be some sort of transition period identified at which time a team (for lack of any other term)
Will be made of of resident representatives, developer reprs.

I do not think we have to worry about them packing up and leaving the ship with no ruder, no captain, no direction. That is not the way billion dollar business men operate.
I know there will be some quoting of the bad guy examples.

btk

[TheCollierCpl]

Where does democracy work well? I don't think there is anything better for a small population than a kingdom, if there is a good king. ... And a citizenry that knows it has the power can keep the kingdom in check. As for us, we have been making decisions our whole life and are ready to relax and st worrying. Although we are just now getting a place here, we have been familiar with TV. These quesitions have been continuous. Let's just he that the upcoming princes and princess's will follow in the fotsts of the king. If not, there is plenty of brain power here to deal with it. In the mean time, relax and st worrying.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by TheCollierCpl

Where does democracy work well? I don't think there is anything better for a small population than a kingdom, if there is a good king. ... And a citizenry that knows it has the power can keep the kingdom in check. As for us, we have been making decisions our whole life and are ready to relax and st worrying. Although we are just now getting a place here, we have been familiar with TV. These quesitions have been continuous. Let's just he that the upcoming princes and princess's will follow in the fotsts of the king. If not, there is plenty of brain power here to deal with it. In the mean time, relax and st worrying.

I agree. It is half full or half empty. Like anywhere in the world you will find the folks that like to live under the premise that the sky is falling, but no where in our travels and we have done a lot, have we lived among so many upbeat positive people. To think that after generations of family building a world famous retirement community would allow their families reputation to be destroyed is a bit of a stretch. Unlike Detroit, with the worst unemployment and terible selection of city politicians, THE VILLAGES if filled with retires with fixed income and even better, with planners that rely on the success of this place to insure their jobs. If you are worried about thirty years from now, go down to one of the squares, have a glass of wine or a cold beer and take a short break from that silliness. Stress kills.

[graciegirl]

I don't know how to phrase it but I worry about offsite landlords buying up tons of resales and renting them out. Two, or three or four or even five homes owned by a responsible villager that is onsite most of the time is good, but people who are not of our demographics with ONLY a view to make money coming in and buying property to make this a vacation destination really worries me.

But what worries me more is that it does become a place where villagers run it . We will go down the tube fast when that happens. We will take the amenity funds and build all of the things that each person wants until we are overspent and underwater and then have to raise the amenity fees until it isn't the reasonable amount that allows almost everyone to afford to live here. We will have indoor pools and performance centers and dog parks and charging centers for golf carts and people will be able to freely drive their golf cart to Miami and Miami folks will be able to drive their golf carts here and the average age will become thirty and we will see signs all about for three golf carts in every garage and chicken in every pot. Whoops...I got a little carried away there. But it would be UGLY.

I do not want to see the inmates running this asylum.

Love live the king.

[ureout]

Gracie, Sorry I have to disagree with you. I think we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves. With the talent we have here and the people who really love to stay involved we can make it wok.....a great example is that we do it now on the north side of 466 we took that huge settlement we won from THE OWNERS (by the way which was won by retired lawyers who live here against a huge law firm in S Fla.) and have put it to good use.....I don't see any frivolous spending on what each and every person wants. I think we should ALL have a say in what happens. I for one do not like to be dictated to.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by ureout

Gracie, Sorry I have to disagree with you. I think we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves. With the talent we have here and the people who really love to stay involved we can make it wok.....a great example is that we do it now on the north side of 466 we took that huge settlement we won from THE OWNERS (by the way which was won by retired lawyers who live here against a huge law firm in S Fla.) and have put it to good use.....I don't see any frivolous spending on what each and every person wants. I think we should ALL have a say in what happens. I for one do not like to be dictated to.

In our younger days we lived in a golf course community, it was a public course and we enjoyed it but it was put up for sale and we didn't want to see it become a bunch of homes so....a hundred or so homeowners bought the course. These were folks who we played golf with for years and thought a couple of thousand dollars each, we are in. What a disaster. We soon learned that common sense is a rarity. Meetings were dominated by know it alls and funds were argued about. Some women wanted to enlarge the ladies locker room and hire a masseuse, some guys wanted to get a loan and redesign the whole course with a golf course architect. There were those who wanted to use private carts on the course and those who didn't. There are those who wanted to turn the hamburger beer concession into fine dining.

WE all finally got out of it and sold it to someone who did build houses on it and we all lost about a thousand bucks each but learned tons about a group of homeowners coming to agreement on what money should be spent on.

And the suit of which you speak..profited those attorneys about four million bucks personally, if I remember correctly and the now president of the POA fifty grand, not that was the reason for the suit. No one can say quite clearly what the reason for the suit was because they aren't allowed to talk about it if they were involved. But we do hear a LOT of opinions. Some must be true, but who knows??? Since I have lived here, the last six years the south side of 466 is maintained perfectly.

Here is a link to that suit from the Orlando Sentinel from March 2006 when it happened.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...es-fees-lawyer

[NotGolfer]

I choose NOT to think about "what if's"....LIFE is way too short to worry. Things do change...some of which we have NO control over so why worry about it in that case? Just my philosophy!!

[Mr.Kris]

In pursuit of my future purchase, here is where I get a further understanding of TV operations from folks experiencing the lifestyle.

My understandings are: (1) A number of CDDs, not the commercial or the new build, are controlled by the citizens as envisioned by the Florida "Uniform Community Development District Act of 1980." So a good example would be how are these democratic districts operating. (2) The "free entertainment" is provided by the developer and charged as an expense of sales/promotion. So after build-out, unless the residents pay for this, it may be a little quieter in TV. (3) The "settlement" referred to involves a breach of agreements to provide appropriate levels of amenity services and facilities. My concern here would be are the amenity fees being paid sufficient to maintain the facilities and to fund the bonds, current and future, to pay the developer? The VCCDD should have a budget, available to the residents, that shows how this will be accomplished. (4) A review of TV demographics would suggest that the level of education and experience far surpasses any other U.S. jurisdiction of any size. So the foundation for a well operated municipality currently exists in TV, regardless of the size of the population.

Comments are extremely welcomed because I need to make a purchase with my "eyes-wide-open."

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Mr.Kris

In pursuit of my future purchase, here is where I get a further understanding of TV operations from folks experiencing the lifestyle.

My understandings are: (1) A number of CDDs, not the commercial or the new build, are controlled by the citizens as envisioned by the Florida "Uniform Community Development District Act of 1980." So a good example would be how are these democratic districts operating. (2) The "free entertainment" is provided by the developer and charged as an expense of sales/promotion. No, actually the businesses on the squares pay for the entertainment and the entertainment department is now not owned by the developer but by the people who have run it for a long time. The Vescos..So after build-out, unless the residents pay for this, it may be a little quieter in TV. (3) The "settlement" referred to involves a breach of agreements to provide appropriate levels of amenity services and facilities. My concern here would be are the amenity fees being paid sufficient to maintain the facilities and to fund the bonds, current and future, to pay the developer? The VCCDD should have a budget, available to the residents, that shows how this will be accomplished. (4) A review of TV demographics would suggest that the level of education and experience far surpasses any other U.S. jurisdiction of any size. So the foundation for a well operated municipality currently exists in TV, regardless of the size of the population.

Comments are extremely welcomed because I need to make a purchase with my "eyes-wide-open."

The areas south of 466 are run the way the developer has run them from the beginning. The areas north of 466 have "input" from the inhabitants.

I will let others tell you what they think. I personally like living south.

Drive around and look both places and see what you think. All are lovely. The areas south have MORE deed restrictions and less objects of art in yards.

[donb9006]

As long as the demographics don't change...I'm good...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I don't know how to phrase it but I worry about offsite landlords buying up tons of resales and renting them out. Two, or three or four or even five homes owned by a responsible villager that is onsite most of the time is good, but people who are not of our demographics with ONLY a view to make money coming in and buying property to make this a vacation destination really worries me.

But what worries me more is that it does become a place where villagers run it . We will go down the tube fast when that happens. We will take the amenity funds and build all of the things that each person wants until we are overspent and underwater and then have to raise the amenity fees until it isn't the reasonable amount that allows almost everyone to afford to live here. We will have indoor pools and performance centers and dog parks and charging centers for golf carts and people will be able to freely drive their golf cart to Miami and Miami folks will be able to drive their golf carts here and the average age will become thirty and we will see signs all about for three golf carts in every garage and chicken in every pot. Whoops...I got a little carried away there. But it would be UGLY.

I do not want to see the inmates running this asylum.

Love live the king.

I don't think that you got carried away at all. It sounds like most municipalities and states in this country.

The problem is not democracy as I see it, it is the bastardization of democracy. The federal government takes so much of our money and then holds it out to states and municipalities in order to get them to do what they want as though they know what's better for us.

Throw in the fact that people who have gotten in power in the past have set up a system slants the electoral process in their favor and we get this system that's no longer a true form of democracy.

We are not and were never intended to be a democracy anyway. We are a representative republic. Pure democracy would never work with anything but a small number of people. It would simply take too much of every one's time to be involved in making every decision that get's made. That's why we hire people to make those decisions for us.

I don't understand all of the worrying about this place getting to big either. I really don't care. I have my little house and little bit of land. I have nice neighbors and everything I really need within a short golf cart drive. Things that happen down below 466A don't really affect me and I don't think that they ever will. I don't know that any different form of government will ever be necessary. What we have now appears to be working just fine and I don't see why it wouldn't work if the population doubled.

Just my opinion.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

In our younger days we lived in a golf course community, it was a public course and we enjoyed it but it was put up for sale and we didn't want to see it become a bunch of homes so....a hundred or so homeowners bought the course. These were folks who we played golf with for years and thought a couple of thousand dollars each, we are in. What a disaster. We soon learned that common sense is a rarity. Meetings were dominated by know it alls and funds were argued about. Some women wanted to enlarge the ladies locker room and hire a masseuse, some guys wanted to get a loan and redesign the whole course with a golf course architect. There were those who wanted to use private carts on the course and those who didn't. There are those who wanted to turn the hamburger beer concession into fine dining.

WE all finally got out of it and sold it to someone who did build houses on it and we all lost about a thousand bucks each but learned tons about a group of homeowners coming to agreement on what money should be spent on.

And the suit of which you speak..profited those attorneys about four million bucks personally, if I remember correctly and the now president of the POA fifty grand, not that was the reason for the suit. No one can say quite clearly what the reason for the suit was because they aren't allowed to talk about it if they were involved. But we do hear a LOT of opinions. Some must be true, but who knows??? Since I have lived here, the last six years the south side of 466 is maintained perfectly.

Here is a link to that suit from the Orlando Sentinel from March 2006 when it happened.
Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel

I spent my life working at golf courses and the majority of that time running private country clubs and you are absolutely 100% correct. Everyone that gets elected to a board has their own little agenda. Couple that with the fact that most people have never really run anything and you have a recipe for disaster. That is exactly why I left a good job at a country club and went on to teaching full time for less money.
You will always have people who think that they know better then the experts that they hire do perform certain duties. I remember having a member of the greens committee call my superintendent one day to tell him that he needed to syringe the fifth green. The committee member was a retired postal carrier. Nothing wrong with that, but he knew nothing about maintaining a golf course. He and the superintendent almost came to blows.
I also had a tournament chairman for several years that tried to set up every tournament so that there were large cash payouts for the top few teams. Of course, his teams always finished in the money.
I did have one club president for a long time who ran his own business and back us up completely. He would tell the board members to let the professionals do their jobs. Give them and idea of the outcome that you want and then let them do it. If people who get elected would take this kind of attitude governments would work a lot better. Unfortunately, they seldom do and we end up with situations like Gracie has described.

[rubicon]

[B][/B

]This is a subject that have been the minds of many residents for a good number of years. Based on the regulations upon which this development is being built and funded the Developer has a legal obligation to relinquish control of residential districts to residents. the Developer (Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc.) will continue to own and operate the commercial district.

In order to have a government consisting of a mayor, etc The villages would need to incorporate. If The Villages incorporated then it would become a part of lady Lake, etc wherein the amenities would be open to all residents of Lake, Marion and Sumter counties.

Much to my surprise and delight I actually have come to believe that The Villages government is working quite well. In fact so far I believe it operates better than our federal government and actually knows and follows a budget. How much credit the Developer gets for this operation is unknown to me. However, if he has considerable sway then I hope he continues

As for The Villages landscaping I also believe it is being handled well. Keep in mind weeds have been prolific ll around the country due to the warm damp weather.

Concerning too big. I prefer to deal with the issues of bigness rather than the issues of abandonment because a development failed.

[Challenger]

Gracie's comments , as usual, are not frivilous. I financed a number of large condo developments in Md , Va an NJ. Things were great while the developer was in charge and had a huge interest in keeping things under control. The problems started when the residents(erstwhile intelligentsia) took over. Their petty arguments and misguided ideas in many cases became self distructive. Most homeowners have no experience in running anything other that their own homes and families and many of the decisions were naive to say the least. Of course , the biggest , rabblerousers became a majority of the governing bodies.

Be careful what you wish for, it will happen soon enough.