[quirky3]

...

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=tucson;868600]Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him.

I would gladly die for your sins if I knew I would come back to life. Bottom line is he, as the story is told, came back to life so he didn't die. AND what sins, I wasn't even born then? How can I or a newborn baby be accused of sins. What if I lived in the Artic or Amazon and never heard of him? Not my fault but you would send me to hell for never hearing about him.
I was married to the preachers daughter until she died at the ripe old age of 36, and he and I had many conversations about the bible. Whenever I asked a question that he couldn't answer then he'd just say "well, you just got to have faith".

[tucson]

[quote=Shimpy;868659]

Originally Posted by tucson

Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him.

I would gladly die for your sins if I knew I would come back to life. Bottom line is he, as the story is told, came back to life so he didn't die. AND what sins, I wasn't even born then? How can I or a newborn baby be accused of sins. What if I lived in the Artic or Amazon and never heard of him? Not my fault but you would send me to hell for never hearing about him.
I was married to the preachers daughter until she died at the ripe old age of 36, and he and I had many conversations about the bible. Whenever I asked a question that he couldn't answer then he'd just say "well, you just got to have faith".

We are all born with original sin via Adam & Eve, who committed their sins in the Garden of Eden, and as a result we (the whole entire population on earth) are born with that "sin nature". As a result we all need a Saviour (Jesus Christ, the Son of God) who came to earth & died in our place on the cross and then was risen from the dead 3 days later. So as we freely believe and freely accept Him as Lord and Saviour of our lives we can enter into the gates of Heaven immediately after we take our last breath. God is supernatural and can speak to the hearts and minds of people who've never even heard the Gospel. He's the great "heart knower", even if you've never heard of Him, He knows when you're searching and seeking Him. There's a scripture that I love and it says. Seek me with all your heart and you WILL find Me. :-) Peace in Christ

[Parker]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

If you can outsmart your maker, you're in good company. Not the company I want to be in...
post edited for clarification. A friend offered me a chance to make my assertion more clear..
indeed, we have a brain. By design, faith is not a matter of intellect, or only smarts would get us to God. Faith and intellect can be/often are mutually exclusive. In my case, faith was a conscious decision that intellect could not earn entry to knowledge of divinity. The brain can't go where faith can go.
No intention to say I don't want to be with people who think otherwise...saying I can't trust my intellect more than my knowing. It's another realm.

I must have been unclear. I am a believer. I don't think we can or should try to outsmart our maker. My point is that we must all learn and understand what we believe for ourselves, not blindly follow a doctrine because someone told us to or because we were born into it.

[helen lovely]

Saw the movie last night & loved it. Refreshing to have a movie out that actually says the word "Jesus" with respect. Theatre was full of families & lots of teenagers. Let's not get into the negative aspects of what some think was the outcome. If the father made money putting a positive Godly message out there that all could enjoy, I am happy for him. He had the courage to promote a message that illustrated a great diverse community working together through ups & downs. It's about God's intervention when tradgedy strikes & community support through the healing process. I rate it the best so go out & support it. No, you will not hear blasphemy or see illicit scenes; it's not typical Hollywood trash that makes billions polluting the minds of families & kids. We, who are in our 70s, left there feeling hopeful about the future, seeing our MIAMI Regal Theatre full to capacity of all ages..

[helen lovely]

Great message. Thanks

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Parker

I must have been unclear. I am a believer. I don't think we can or should try to outsmart our maker. My point is that we must all learn and understand what we believe for ourselves, not blindly follow a doctrine because someone told us to or because we were born into it.

I did misunderstand your first post. We say the same thing from differing vantages. In your view, if I get you, faith is not a heritage, but a choice made only by volition of the individual.
In my experience, with no birthright of faith, I came to define blind faith differently than you are saying. It was not handed down to me, and so faith is the moment I chose to believe in what I could not prove by logic; therefore trusting in a realm which my mind, however keen, could not see into nor fathom, nor comprehend.

[helen lovely]

Your life must be very empty life if you believe in nothing. Something tragic will have to happen to make you realize that there is a beyond & a tomorrow that many of us are striving to qualify for constantly. How can you go through life believing that this is it?
"A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. Do yourself a big favor & read the book.

[helen lovely]

Saw the movie last night & loved it. Refreshing to have a movie out that actually says the word "Jesus" with respect. Theatre was full of families & lots of teenagers. Let's not get into the negative aspects of what some think was the outcome. If the father made money putting a positive Godly message out there that all could enjoy, I am happy for him. He had the courage to promote a message that illustrated a great diverse community working together through ups & downs. It's about God's intervention when tradgedy strikes & community support through the healing process. I rate it the best so go out & support it. No, you will not hear blasphemy or see illicit scenes; it's not typical Hollywood trash that makes billions polluting the minds of families & kids. We, who are in our 70s, left there feeling hopeful about the future, seeing our MIAMI Regal Theatre full to capacity of all ages..

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by helen lovely

Your life must be very empty life if you believe in nothing. Something tragic will have to happen to make you realize that there is a beyond & a tomorrow that many of us are striving to qualify for constantly. How can you go through life believing that this is it?
"A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. Do yourself a big favor & read the book.

There are some places in scripture where tragedy causes a person to believe, such as Paul's conversion. Most of the time people became believers because they saw miracles of love when people were healed, fed, raised from the dead, protected from "religious" people who wanted to punish them, and so on.

IMO no intellectual gets converted by threats that God will punish them. The good news is that God is love, and He wants to bridge the gap a brilliant mind can create-- faith is the substance that goes in that gap.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

I did misunderstand your first post. We say the same thing from differing vantages. In your view, if I get you, faith is not a heritage, but a choice made only by volition of the individual.
In my experience, with no birthright of faith, I came to define blind faith differently than you are saying. It was not handed down to me, and so faith is the moment I chose to believe in what I could not prove by logic; therefore trusting in a realm which my mind, however keen, could not see into nor fathom, nor comprehend.

For me, faith makes sense and is logical, based on what I see and understand of the world/nature. I know we all come to it differently, and that is okay. Those who strive are worth knowing.

[quirky3]

Saw this today and felt that it relates to this conversation....

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by quirky3

Saw this today and felt that it relates to this conversation....

Wow, then I lose both ways. I need to do something just in case heii exits. LOL

[rubicon]

Hubris is what drives some people to deny God or something greater than themselves.

Some are caught in the middle of cognitive dissonance vis a vis blind faith

As a general statement most people are spiritual in nature and sense something is grater then themselves

The message sent from this boy and many other with near death experiences is a gift and I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Clearly technology assisted in bringing these people back from death. We are all products of our DNA and our DNA makes us who we are be it artist or scientist. Is DNA just an evolutionary byproduct of happenstance? or intellectual design? In other words did God provide the technology to assist in bringing back these people? Did He do it to let us know He cares? Or is it just randomness? having no meaning?

If at the moment of my last breath I experience the light shining upon me, I will consider myself fortunate indeed no matter what follows

[kittygilchrist]

bible list of people coming back from dead.
Resurrection: Bible Characters Raised from the Dead

Article mentions Jesus as resurrecting too....but everybody knows he didn't give a hoot about laws of nature.