[Marathon Man]

OK, I'm jumping in. First, please stop calling it an "AED Program". It is a neighborhood Emergency Response Team program. Second, of course we are trained to start CCC (continuous chest compressions) after determining that is the correct thing to do. Responders have a list of duties that include much more than just fetching the AED.

I am seeing a lot of comments from those that clearly have no idea what is actually involved in these EMT programs. I find it irresponsible of them to risk influencing others with their uninformed comments. OK, have at me. I will still come to your home and help save your life.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

Clearly OP is not familiar with how the process actually happens. Others have helped them understand how incorrect (and incomplete) that timeline is.

One major point being suggested is that the trained people responding are not capable of actually getting to the victim and performing CPR in a timely manner. That concept is ridiculous.
From the time the 911 operator gets the call, to the info being sent via Pulse Point simultaneously to the FD and all trained resident's phones near the call, and those residents begin heading to the location might take 15 seconds in the daytime. Obviously a little longer at night but still quickly. Neighbors will arrive and start CPR immediately. More people will arrive and all will pitch in with doing other tasks, and trading out who is actually hands on. CPR FIRST, ASAP. That's what happens to save a life.

Shortly, when another person arrives with an AED, it gets set up right away. Since it's a computer, it will analyze the heart rhythm and shock if necessary. Cannot do that via CPR.
AED also evaluates the quality of CPR being performed. It will say things like "press harder" or "press faster". There's no guessing about "is this the right form". No opinions. It's 100% factual information to direct people how to do CPR better. That equates to a more likely chance for a save.
Starting to understand the value of the AED yet?

This is the best response medical science has developed. It has success because of all the pieces are working together. Multiple people getting to patient quickly to immediately start CPR. Having state of the art equipment available to assist efforts. Having paramedics en-route to provide advanced life support when they get there.

Without the AED program, the patient likely would not receive CPR until the medics arrive. Most likely, things are already too late.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Well fortunately our village social organization did have the emails….thats how the coordinator decimates information.
The letter you mentioned seemed to work as well.

They have -everybody's- emails?

That's surprising, considering how protective some are about giving out their email...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by rustyp

You just added an extra step between 6 and 7.You can't retrieve the AED if you are doing CPR. Now you are going to say another volunteer is getting the AED. We will need to coordinate golf, pickle ball, rec center classes . etc. to make sure we have the coverage.

Change add or delete the steps. The point was we have a 6 minute response time here in TV by paramedics. I also stated the payback would be CPR training. It's a very small chance you will beat the paramedics to the AED button push step.

My opinion (which allowed until you can produce the time data I requested) is
- The AED in a TV volunteer situation is more a placebo than a life saver. It's not likely to be used but has to be maintained.
- Spend your efforts getting neighbors CPR trained. That's where 99% of the payback will come from.

I wish people would learn to read - go back - reread! The list was intended for the reader to assign time to steps to illustrate how likely or unlikely neighbors would beat paramedics in TV to the AED - not CPR.

Once again, you show you don't know how the program, nor the actual AED, works...

I (and others) have explained it to you. Sadly, we can't understand it for you...

EVERYONE in the AED program is trained in CPM. The AED is an adjunct to help insure that the CPR is being performed properly, as well as a defibrillator (if needed).

And no, you don't have to coordinate the volunteer's schedules. The call goes out to dozens (possibly more) of people...

And that "6 minute response time"? That is the average, under ideal conditions...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Maker

Clearly OP is not familiar with how the process actually happens. Others have helped them understand how incorrect (and incomplete) that timeline is.

One major point being suggested is that the trained people responding are not capable of actually getting to the victim and performing CPR in a timely manner. That concept is ridiculous.
From the time the 911 operator gets the call, to the info being sent via Pulse Point simultaneously to the FD and all trained resident's phones near the call, and those residents begin heading to the location might take 15 seconds in the daytime. Obviously a little longer at night but still quickly. Neighbors will arrive and start CPR immediately. More people will arrive and all will pitch in with doing other tasks, and trading out who is actually hands on. CPR FIRST, ASAP. That's what happens to save a life.

Shortly, when another person arrives with an AED, it gets set up right away. Since it's a computer, it will analyze the heart rhythm and shock if necessary. Cannot do that via CPR.
AED also evaluates the quality of CPR being performed. It will say things like "press harder" or "press faster". There's no guessing about "is this the right form". No opinions. It's 100% factual information to direct people how to do CPR better. That equates to a more likely chance for a save.
Starting to understand the value of the AED yet?

This is the best response medical science has developed. It has success because of all the pieces are working together. Multiple people getting to patient quickly to immediately start CPR. Having state of the art equipment available to assist efforts. Having paramedics en-route to provide advanced life support when they get there.

Without the AED program, the patient likely would not receive CPR until the medics arrive. Most likely, things are already too late.

An excellent explanation of the "timeline"!

Unfortunately, it will fall on -some- "deaf ears"...

[Shipping up to Boston]

All of this weeks long interpretation of this subject has had me hoping someone would drop the famous quote from Joe Pesci' character in My Cousin Vinny. After a brief nap at the defense table, he awakens and walks towards the jury....pointing to the DA and says "everything that guy just said is bull s*it"!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on these AED programs, and how many times have the units been used. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on car homeowner's insurance in my neighborhood, and how many times claims have been called in. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

Facts: not many. And yet we bear the costs of other neighborhoods who have called in insurance much more often. The roof scandal is a great example of that. Only a limited number of streets in The Villages participated in the fraud of unscrupulous roofers submitting the insurance claims on behalf of customers who didn't actually need new roofs. But all site-built homes in The Villages are feeling the fallout from that now.

Meanwhile, the people who genuinely do need a new roof - have to pay through the nose, because those unscrupulous roofers are no longer around to give cut rates to the consumer while submitting bloated prices to the insurance companies.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by rustyp

You just added an extra step between 6 and 7.You can't retrieve the AED if you are doing CPR. Now you are going to say another volunteer is getting the AED. We will need to coordinate golf, pickle ball, rec center classes . etc. to make sure we have the coverage.

Change add or delete the steps. The point was we have a 6 minute response time here in TV by paramedics. I also stated the payback would be CPR training. It's a very small chance you will beat the paramedics to the AED button push step.

My opinion (which allowed until you can produce the time data I requested) is
- The AED in a TV volunteer situation is more a placebo than a life saver. It's not likely to be used but has to be maintained.
- Spend your efforts getting neighbors CPR trained. That's where 99% of the payback will come from.

I wish people would learn to read - go back - reread! The list was intended for the reader to assign time to steps to illustrate how likely or unlikely neighbors would beat paramedics in TV to the AED - not CPR.

I agree with you - unfortunately from a direct personal experience. The AED which was across from my house two houses down, so let’s say 60 steps away, arrived too late and these people were at home and came immediately. That does not mean the system never works, just don’t count on it alone.

I also slept with my door open, for the first time in my life. My EMS neighbor said to call 911 (and they call him as he is closest) because I was having a difficult time breathing from grief and shock. After losing what I valued most in life, burglary would have been a drop in the bucket. It was my neighbors, through their caring and kindness who really saved my life, and yes I would certainly fund an AED if they wanted one.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

All of this weeks long interpretation of this subject has had me hoping someone would drop the famous quote from Joe Pesci' character in My Cousin Vinny. After a brief nap at the defense table, he awakens and walks towards the jury....pointing to the DA and says "everything that guy just said is bull s*it"!

That would most likely result in another movie.. National Lampoon's "Vacation"...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I agree with you - unfortunately from a direct personal experience. The AED which was across from my house two houses down, so let’s say 60 steps away, arrived too late and these people were at home and came immediately. That does not mean the system never works, just don’t count on it alone.

Who would ever "count on it alone"?

It doesn't get implemented until a call to "911" is made...

As I've explained, multiple times, it's an "adjunct" to the EMT response...

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

They have -everybody's- emails?

That's surprising, considering how protective some are about giving out their email...

Not an issue……not everyone is paranoid.

OBTW only the association secretary has the emails. Quit looking for a flaw!

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by rustyp

In a community with a 6 minute response time by full time paramedics a neighborhood CPR training initiative would be much more beneficial than AED implementation. By the time a neighbor runs to retrieve the AED the paramedics are there. That time was better spent administering CPR.

Originally Posted by JMintzer

An excellent explanation of the "timeline"!

Unfortunately, it will fall on -some- "deaf ears"...

Look above at my original post re AED response time! Some unfortunately will fall upon non comprehensive reading skills.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Who would ever "count on it alone"?

It doesn't get implemented until a call to "911" is made...

As I've explained, multiple times, it's an "adjunct" to the EMT response...

You are trying very hard to get people to understand how the system works. It appears that there are some who do not want to let go of their pre-conceived, uninformed thoughts.

My concern is that their comments may influence others and negatively affect a neighborhood's ability to implement a program. A life could be lost because people became convinced that it was not needed. That would be a genuine shame.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on car homeowner's insurance in my neighborhood, and how many times claims have been called in. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

Facts: not many. And yet we bear the costs of other neighborhoods who have called in insurance much more often. The roof scandal is a great example of that. Only a limited number of streets in The Villages participated in the fraud of unscrupulous roofers submitting the insurance claims on behalf of customers who didn't actually need new roofs. But all site-built homes in The Villages are feeling the fallout from that now.

Meanwhile, the people who genuinely do need a new roof - have to pay through the nose, because those unscrupulous roofers are no longer around to give cut rates to the consumer while submitting bloated prices to the insurance companies.

If you don't have a mortgage, homeowner's insurance is optional. If you think it is too expensive, then don't buy it.

[BobnBev]

How about this. I'm having chest pains, I call 911 and I pass out while talking to the operator. The call goes out to all in the neighborhood. They arrive and find all the doors are locked. They can't get in to start compressions. CW shows up and says I can't break the door down. Fire Rescue shows up and says I CAN. Meanwhile, I died lying on the floor. As a neighbor, would YOU break the door down?