[jdulej]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Since this nonsense was resurrected from the previous amenity fee thread (twice), I'll resurrect the true response:

Now for some remedial math:

Cost of maintaining a golf course, according to the CSGA, varies from $80,000 to close to $ 2 million/year depending on location and the course. The average is $500,000/year for a full 18 hole championship course in very good condition, or $250,000 for a 9 hole course. Our 9 hole exec courses are less than 1/2 of the length of nine holes on those courses, but the most expensive parts of a course to maintain are bunkers and greens, so let's go high and say it costs $200,000/ year to maintain each of our execs. So, 44 execs x $200,000/year = $8.8 million/year.

On the income side-----approx. 65,000 homes in TV paying about $170/MONTH amenity fees: 65,000 x 170 x 12 = $ 132.6 million/year. 8.8/132.6 = 6.6% of the amenity fee going to golf (far from 100%). We can debate these numbers a little, but they are certainly well in the ballpark, so I doubt more than 10% of the amenity fee goes for exec golf.

So.....$170/month x 6.6% = $11.22/month or $134.64/year, then add $144 trail fee (if using cart) for $278.86/year divided by 104 rounds = $2.68/round , or only $1.29/round if walking and playing twice a week-----this is the real cost of "free" golf, far from $24/round. Play 4x/ week and those costs go to $1.34 and $0.65 respectively.

I wonder if some factor should be included to account for the mark-up the developer gets for each house they build and sell. They are trading on their name and the amenities they brag about (right or wrong, doesn't matter). If you take any Village's house and plop it down 1/2 mile outside TV, it will be 30% less (at a minimum)

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I wonder if some factor should be included to account for the mark-up the developer gets for each house they build and sell. They are trading on their name and the amenities they brag about (right or wrong, doesn't matter). If you take any Village's house and plop it down 1/2 mile outside TV, it will be 30% less (at a minimum)

Is it markup or PROFIT, for risking their capital? A house in the vilages demands a premium ONLY because of the Developer.

[jdulej]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Is it markup or PROFIT, for risking their capital? A house in the vilages demands a premium ONLY because of the Developer.

I'm not begrudging them their money. If someone doesn't like the Village's pricing, go somewhere else. All I'm suggesting is that for those living here, we paid a premium and one of the major lures was "free" golf. It's like thinking you are getting "free" shipping with Amazon Prime - the cost is buried in the item's price.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I wonder if some factor should be included to account for the mark-up the developer gets for each house they build and sell. They are trading on their name and the amenities they brag about (right or wrong, doesn't matter). If you take any Village's house and plop it down 1/2 mile outside TV, it will be 30% less (at a minimum)

Buyers choice!

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I wonder if some factor should be included to account for the mark-up the developer gets for each house they build and sell. They are trading on their name and the amenities they brag about (right or wrong, doesn't matter). If you take any Village's house and plop it down 1/2 mile outside TV, it will be 30% less (at a minimum)

you can say that about any home anywhere, same house in bad neighborhood worth less then same one in good neighborhood, same house at beach and same house not at beach , I could go on but I’m sure it won’t register because this is more about the family. I’ve owned 5 new and one preowned here I don’t golf , I don’t use recreation centers or pools , I live here because of the well maintained grounds and the many businesses that have flocked to this area and because my property values here are higher then a half mile away

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by biker1

The "cap" on the amenities fee notwithstanding, and it was pretty clear that it would not be forever, the Deed Restrictions clearly stated that the amenities fee increases were tied to the CPI. People would only be surprised if they failed to read the Deed Restrictions - they are only a few pages along.

Even if they didn't read the deed restrictions, the only way anyone should be surprised at inflationary increases for amenity fees is if they somehow imagined The Villages is truly a bubble, insulated totally from the rest of civilization.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Even if they didn't read the deed restrictions, the only way anyone should be surprised at inflationary increases for amenity fees is if they somehow imagined The Villages is truly a bubble, insulated totally from the rest of civilization.

[biker1]

I suspect some people might have been told that the amenities fee was capped at $155 (the "cap" that was in place to try to synch up the amenities fees across The Villages). Nobody, of course, should have assumed that it would last forever. That could be part of the surprise. I agree that it would be naive to assume that The Villages is immune to inflationary pressures.

Originally Posted by Laker14

Even if they didn't read the deed restrictions, the only way anyone should be surprised at inflationary increases for amenity fees is if they somehow imagined The Villages is truly a bubble, insulated totally from the rest of civilization.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I'm not begrudging them their money. If someone doesn't like the Village's pricing, go somewhere else. All I'm suggesting is that for those living here, we paid a premium and one of the major lures was "free" golf. It's like thinking you are getting "free" shipping with Amazon Prime - the cost is buried in the item's price.

I get it - so at one time there were no trail fees? So golf used ot really be FREE? When did they start charging trail fees?
I knew about the trail fee before I bought, so I never had the impression, other than a commercial I saw on TV, that golf was free. I actually talked to people, asked my realtor, etc.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I get it - so at one time there were no trail fees? So golf used ot really be FREE? When did they start charging trail fees?
I knew about the trail fee before I bought, so I never had the impression, other than a commercial I saw on TV, that golf was free. I actually talked to people, asked my realtor, etc.

I been paying a trail fee since 2002. If you get it where did you get it?

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

I been paying a trail fee since 2002. If you get it where did you get it?

See the post i quoted - said they were “lured” here by the developer claiming free golf.
I knew there was always a trail fee.

[frose]

this is the villages there is no cap on anything.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by frose

this is the villages there is no cap on anything.

Welcome to the entire world.

[biker1]

There was. It may have been called the deferral rate and was set at $155. It was removed about 2 years ago, IIRC.

Originally Posted by frose

this is the villages there is no cap on anything.

[Goldwingnut]

Will this horse never die?
Here's my video (again) with the deferral rate explanation
https://youtu.be/EsFulbLR32w

Here's the link to the YouTube playlist with all the videos about the fees we pay:
The Villages Information/Fees Videos - YouTube