[EnglishJW]

Advice from Canada:
http://http://www.siskinds.com/Publications/All/To-go-or-not-to-go-Left-turn-obligations.aspx

And this from Michigan:
http://http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/traffic_talk_should_you_enter.html

[Halibut]

If a driver is more comfortable waiting at the stop bar until they are confident it is safe to make their turn, that is what they should do. They are under no obligation to do what they are not comfortable with to expedite your journey.

I agree. Driving defensively takes precedence for me. Why move into the intersection to wait for it to be clear when traffic is so steady that I know damned well it won't ever be clear? That just leaves me sitting in the middle of the intersection after my light has turned red. Depending on the people coming towards me who squeeze their yellow light until it screams, I may very well still be sitting there when cross traffic gets their green and they have to wait for me to finish my turn before they can proceed. Which maneuver is liable to make the most people wait?

I only proceed into the intersection when traffic is light and there's all probability of me being able to turn on solid green.

[bagboy]

Halibut, YES YES, that's my point

[jalopy54]

Originally Posted by Rc Moser

I also agree, green arrows should not be green if they don't have the right away. usually the green arrow goes yellow then out when on coming traffic goes green. IMO if the green arrow stays green when on coming traffic gets green light this is just stupid unless I misunderstood.

The green arrow goes out and the green round light comes on for all traffic to proceed. If turning left you have to yield to oncoming traffic.

[Happinow]

After reading these comments, it's clear we all have different opinions on what's safe when making left hand turns in big intersections. Perhaps the time of day should be considered. For instance at 1:00 PM the traffic is most likely at a high volume, making it unsafe to sit in an intersection waiting to make a left hand turn. Most likely you will be in the intersection after your light has turned red, which is illegal. At 9:00PM, when traffic is at a low point it is probably safe to creep into the intersection to make a turn. With that being said, if you are the first car at the stop bar waiting to make a left hand turn, as another poster pointed out it's not always a good vantage point for seeing oncoming traffic, especially if there is a car in the opposite direction waiting to make their left hand turn. Perhaps the car behind you or a car two cars behind you have a better site line for seeing whether it is safe to make that turn or not. So here's where the problem arises.....since those cars behind you have a better site line to see if it safe to make a left hand turn or not and you being the first car don't have a good site line, that's when the horns start blowing! Then, you as the driver in the first car get intimidated and decide to proceed with the turn even though you don't have a good sight line.....and BANG! Another car plows into you at 50mph or more. So, if you are sitting behind someone making a left hand turn and they chose not to make the turn when YOU think they should, maybe they can't see well enough to do so safely. Please give them a break. Is the extra seconds or minutes really worth someone's life? Also, if you have two cars in an intersection turning left coming from opposite directions, which I've seen many times, it makes for a very confusing area. I just can't see where waiting in the intersection to make a left turn when it is busy is safe, regardless of the rules.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Happinow

...Most likely you will be in the intersection after your light has turned red, which is illegal...

Common misconception. It is not illegal. If you cross the stop bar on green (creep into the intersection), it is legal to complete your left turn after the signal turns red. It is called clearing the intersection, and is an expected part of a properly functioning intersection.

I have no intent to blow my own horn or anything...honest! But Just for the record, I have a Master of Engineering degree from the University of Florida Transportation Institute, where I specialized in traffic engineering. I then worked for 30 years in various aspects of road design and traffic engineering.

The turn I describe above, when executed properly at a well-designed intersection of course, is safe, efficient, and perfectly legal.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Common misconception. It is not illegal. If you cross the stop bar on green (creep into the intersection), it is legal to complete your left turn after the signal turns red. It is called clearing the intersection, and is an expected part of a properly functioning intersection.

I have no intent to blow my own horn or anything...honest! But Just for the record, I have a Master of Engineering degree from the University of Florida Transportation Institute, where I specialized in traffic engineering. I then worked for 30 years in various aspects of road design and traffic engineering.

The turn I describe above, when executed properly at a well-designed intersection of course, is safe, efficient, and perfectly legal.

Based on your background, you must know that there are many busy intersections in Florida where the left turn green arrow turns solid red in both directions when the main light turns green in both directions. It seems that the intersection at Morse and CR466 is headed in that direction based on the number of cars and lack of visibility and number of accidents.

[Bogie Shooter]

Newly installed signals at US301 & CR466 have the flashing amber left turn arrow.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Based on your background, you must know that there are many busy intersections in Florida where the left turn green arrow turns solid red in both directions when the main light turns green in both directions. It seems that the intersection at Morse and CR466 is headed in that direction based on the number of cars and lack of visibility and number of accidents.

How many accidents were the result of someone making a left turn at this intersection?

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Based on your background, you must know that there are many busy intersections in Florida where the left turn green arrow turns solid red in both directions when the main light turns green in both directions...

Yep. Totally different situation. No left turn when the signal controlling left turns is red. The "creep into the intersection" movement applies to a left turn green ball only.

[tomwed]

Polar Bear,
I wouldn't think there would be that much traffic where you come from. Did you have snowbirds too?

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Polar Bear,
I wouldn't think there would be that much traffic where you come from. Did you have snowbirds too?

Lived most of my adult life in Tampa Bay. Snowbirds yes, but lots of traffic year round.

[tomwed]

Polar Bear,
Are both Arctic Circles navigated clockwise? Or are they opposite?

[Ripcord13]

It IS the nuts behind the wheel and since the snowbirds have arrived I hear sirens at least twice a day

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Common misconception. It is not illegal. If you cross the stop bar on green (creep into the intersection), it is legal to complete your left turn after the signal turns red. It is called clearing the intersection, and is an expected part of a properly functioning intersection.

I have no intent to blow my own horn or anything...honest! But Just for the record, I have a Master of Engineering degree from the University of Florida Transportation Institute, where I specialized in traffic engineering. I then worked for 30 years in various aspects of road design and traffic engineering.

The turn I describe above, when executed properly at a well-designed intersection of course, is safe, efficient, and perfectly legal.

In NJ and PA if you pass the white stop bar, proceed into the intersection and then turn when the light turns red you have gone through a red light. I have two tickets and one appeal to back that up.....the judge read the law to make sure I understood it.....lol. A friend of mine was t-boned doing the same thing, nobody was hurt but he was responsible because he went through the red light. Not sure what the law is in FL.