[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

YOU may think that, but I don't agree. I am guessing that they are establishing some kind of precedent to keep some kind of bus business from using our parking lots as public lots and advertising for outsiders to park here..

They have sold out all kinds of businesses including entertainment, transportation, The Lighthouse, Cane Garden, the restaurant where Panera is now,and Southern Lifestyles, the furniture store, keeping the buildings to rent to new businesses.

I am fully aware that the Morses are capitalists which I fully support, and in my opinion are astute business people, but getting into a niche business like tour buses just doesn't seem plausible.

I don't use tour buses regularly, and none of the people who I know well except for CFrance do...so I have to wonder just what percent of the population here do use them. I wouldn't think many, as I have never seen droves of people boarding a bus. Usually some club or another are begging you to go along so they can fill a bus.

There is a good reason why this is being done and I think it is for our good here in The Villages.

But I have been wrong before.

And I am sorry for those who are being inconvenienced by this decision. They obviously enjoyed this very much. And I may want to do it too someday and will rant about it not being convenient.
.

Bump

[OldGator]

I work with one of the "Banned Bus Companies" and would like to address a few facts. 1) We DO still pick up in The Villages. We have been asked to avoid Rec Centers, Downtown areas, and the Depots. No Problem. That still leaves many options, and no additional cost is added. 2) The Villages (Transportation) is receiving protection from outside companies operating in TV, and that is primarily what is driving the whole issue, IMO. They are opening up a "Day Trip Dept" to compete with AAA, Senior Adventures, Etc and have taken steps to take over those options The Villagers currently have. They have already gone out and bought a number of additional used Tour Buses to do what we are told we cannot do- load at the depots. Where do you think THEY will park? 3) As far as I am aware, when WE pick up anywhere in The Villages, it is for groups/clubs of Village residents. We have NEVER suggested to outside groups to come to The Villages and use depots, parking, or other loading areas within The Villages. When Stonecrest, Del Webb, Spruce Creek, etc want to load a bus, they always have us come to THEIR Rec Centers/Clubhouses for loading. 4) It has been suggested that we rent space in TV, to solve the problem, wrong. We are not allowed to rent space in The Villages, (Protection for Villages Transportation), and companies that DO rent spaces, are not allowed to use THEIR OWN parking spaces for parking if they are getting on an outside bus. Please spread the word- you still have a choice for now- If Parking alone were the issue, how does banning outside companies (your ability to shop for price and quality) and then adding MORE buses to TV fleet, solve the parking issue? Are you starting to see the REAL issue yet?

[skip0358]

Originally Posted by CFrance

I thought what he meant was the bus company that is authorized to pick people up on Villages property was going to charge $17 more per person than their normal bus company. In other words, the total cost of the TV company was much more.

You are correct.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OldGator

I work with one of the "Banned Bus Companies" and would like to address a few facts. 1) We DO still pick up in The Villages. We have been asked to avoid Rec Centers, Downtown areas, and the Depots. No Problem. That still leaves many options, and no additional cost is added. 2) The Villages (Transportation) is receiving protection from outside companies operating in TV, and that is primarily what is driving the whole issue, IMO. They are opening up a "Day Trip Dept" to compete with AAA, Senior Adventures, Etc and have taken steps to take over those options The Villagers currently have. They have already gone out and bought a number of additional used Tour Buses to do what we are told we cannot do- load at the depots. Where do you think THEY will park? 3) As far as I am aware, when WE pick up anywhere in The Villages, it is for groups/clubs of Village residents. We have NEVER suggested to outside groups to come to The Villages and use depots, parking, or other loading areas within The Villages. When Stonecrest, Del Webb, Spruce Creek, etc want to load a bus, they always have us come to THEIR Rec Centers/Clubhouses for loading. 4) It has been suggested that we rent space in TV, to solve the problem, wrong. We are not allowed to rent space in The Villages, (Protection for Villages Transportation), and companies that DO rent spaces, are not allowed to use THEIR OWN parking spaces for parking if they are getting on an outside bus. Please spread the word- you still have a choice for now- If Parking alone were the issue, how does banning outside companies (your ability to shop for price and quality) and then adding MORE buses to TV fleet, solve the parking issue? Are you starting to see the REAL issue yet?

So your competition has a brick and mortar store front and rent it from the developer....for MONEY. Your company isn't allowed to rent a brick and mortar store front, because of competition clauses....but...your company can still pick up and have their clients park and pick them up, without the overhead cost of rent...so you can charge less?

Sounds like you are getting an advantage. If I was paying rent...I'd be complaining.

[Villager Joyce]

Originally Posted by skip0358

You are correct.

Looks like I misread the post. Bacon, eggs, hash browns and toast killed a couple brain cells. But it was darn good.

[OldGator]

Right! Until it is your Ox getting gored!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OldGator

But using the cover of "Government" as the enforcement or telling others businesses in The Villages, if you don't use OUR carrier, you can lose your lease, is called "extortion".

You are saying that The Villages tells people who lease from them that they must use the bus services who lease from TV or they will break their lease?

Are you completely sure of what you are saying??? So that means the guy that owns a restaurant, if he booked a day tour with your bus company, that would be cause for The Villages to break their lease? That they are threatened with this??????


extortion
[ ikˈstôrSHən ]
NOUN
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
synonyms: blackmail · shakedown · exaction

[bimmertl]

Originally Posted by OldGator

But using the cover of "Government" as the enforcement or telling others businesses in The Villages, if you don't use OUR carrier, you can lose your lease, is called "extortion".

Actually, it's classic Morse. Restrict competition within the Villages in order to maximize his profits.

It's clear he doesn't believe in free enterprise, which lets competition within the market place determine who survives without government (developer) intervention. It's driven by greed!

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by bimmertl

Actually, it's classic Morse. Restrict competition within the Villages in order to maximize his profits.

It's clear he doesn't believe in free enterprise, which lets competition within the market place determine who survives without government (developer) intervention. It's driven by greed!

I was involved in development for over 30 years. All developers restrict competition in their own developments. It's SOP. If they don't, they're crazy.
Your remark about not believing in free enterprise astounds me. This is a perfect example of free enterprise. Anybody is free to compete with TV and the Morses...by building their own development. But within their development, they are free to do what they (legally) choose.
And legally maximizing profits isn't greed. It's business...pretty much what free enterprise is all about.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by xNYer

Many recreation center properties were purchased from the developer by the central districts. Tax free bonds were issued to purchase the properties using amenity money from all of us to fund the bond repayments.

The whole private property issues seems quite convoluted given that tax free bonds which must serve a public purpose are the funding mechanisms.
It would seem that clubs run by villagers that charter busses should have some say about the issue.

Only the recreation centers north of CR466 (plus Laurel Manor and Belvedere) were sold by the developer to the central districts. The tax free bond issue is the subject of the IRS investigation, which is now in its eighth year.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I was involved in development for over 30 years. All developers restrict competition in their own developments. It's SOP. If they don't, they're crazy.
Your remark about not believing in free enterprise astounds me. This is a perfect example of free enterprise. Anybody is free to compete with TV and the Morses...by building their own development. But within their development, they are free to do what they (legally) choose.
And legally maximizing profits isn't greed. It's business...pretty much what free enterprise is all about.

Thanks for the response, bimmertl, while one of those that has no appreciation for what he has, continues to support those that live here but just don't get it. Anything that puts money in the pockets of others is greed, but anything that puts money in bimmertl's (and those that share his position) pockets is not greed. It still amazes me that people that bash the developer still live here....why? TV has rules and we knew that when we bought here, TV has a developer that invests in a commercial district that benefits the residents and we knew that, TV is an expensive place to live and we knew that. Yet bimmertl and those he supports and support him find it a horrible situation. Yet they stay.

[OldGator]

What I am telling you is that the implication was: if you load again behind your store, your lease may not be renewed! It is the residents of The Villages that are losing. They are trying to eliminate the option of shopping for the best deal for yourselves. This is like the developer saying- everyone can have a golf cart, or golf clubs, or Ice Cream Cone- as long as you buy it from us, or in this case, who we designate. But the big difference is, it isn't just the developer- it is the quasi-governemtal agencies that have been put in place. How long do you leave the "protectionist policies" in place. Villages Transportation is not an upstart business trying to get established in The Villages. It has been here since the beginning. But because they were not competative, they now move to ban the competion, who has also been here all along!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OldGator

What I am telling you is that the implication was: if you load again behind your store, your lease may not be renewed! It is the residents of The Villages that are losing. They are trying to eliminate the option of shopping for the best deal for yourselves. This is like the developer saying- everyone can have a golf cart, or golf clubs, or Ice Cream Cone- as long as you buy it from us, or in this case, who we designate. But the big difference is, it isn't just the developer- it is the quasi-governemtal agencies that have been put in place. How long do you leave the "protectionist policies" in place. Villages Transportation is not an upstart business trying to get established in The Villages. It has been here since the beginning. But because they were not competative, they now move to ban the competion, who has also been here all along!

HUH? If you load people from behind WHAT store? Is The Villages Transportation your competition? It isn't owned any longer by The Villages. But back to what I asked. You don't pay rent, and you get to transport people from The Villages and you are complaining?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I was involved in development for over 30 years. All developers restrict competition in their own developments. It's SOP. If they don't, they're crazy.
Your remark about not believing in free enterprise astounds me. This is a perfect example of free enterprise. Anybody is free to compete with TV and the Morses...by building their own development. But within their development, they are free to do what they (legally) choose.
And legally maximizing profits isn't greed. It's business...pretty much what free enterprise is all about.

bump

[twoplanekid]

Returning to the original question, Ms. Tutt stated that the banning of outside busses was because of a lack of parking. Is this statement correct? Can’t space be found in a large city of over 100,000 to enable residents to park in their city? If the true purpose is to allow only approved companies to operate in the Villages, then there might be an issue of public versus private control of this outside of the 3 commercial CDDs.

We must be given the correct facts and information by public officials. If not provided by them then by whom?